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whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 01:03
by jamamb
just wondering, as adonis, whether justified or not, hasnt done so since 2013 and there is talk of a jack rematch next rather then his mandatory gvodyzk
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 01:08
by Mexi-Box
It'd be maddening if the WBC allow him to dick around and rematch Jack.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 01:11
by jamamb
i was really taken back when i looked, i hadnt realised it had been 5 years!! thats massive and already talk of him not making his mando next
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 04:22
by Enlightened-One
Adonis Stevenson just faced the highest ranked WBC title challenger, even though Badou Jack wasn't the mandatory).
The WBC sometimes declares certain fighters as mandatory challengers, even if they aren't considered the number one in their rankings (i.e. Breazeale was ranked much lower than Whyte when he became Wilder's mandatory).
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 04:26
by Enlightened-One
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 01:08
It'd be maddening if the WBC allow him to dick around and rematch Jack.
Badou Jack currently holds the top spot in the WBC's rankings.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 04:27
by jamamb
gvodzyk is the official mandatory right? lets see if they count jack as an official mandatory or not. i didnt think i saw him referred to as mandatory challenger at any point yet, no 'stevenson fought to a draw with mandatory challenger badou jack' or 'stevenson will fight mando challenger badou jack' etc
either way thats still like 5 years! im curious about other long cases too
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 04:33
by DrDuke
Stevenson had the right to ask for the rematch in the case of a loss, didn't he? It's interesting, what about the case of a draw.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 04:59
by Enlightened-One
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:33
Stevenson had the right to ask for the rematch in the case of a loss, didn't he? It's interesting, what about the case of a draw.
The WBC actually stated that the
winner of Stevenson-Jack must face Oleksandr Gvozdyk next (their actual words)... and I'm sure they didn't impose deadlines.
Last night's result was a draw, which means that a bout between Adonis Stevenson and Oleksandr Gvozdyk is clearly no certainty.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 05:06
by DrDuke
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:59
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:33
Stevenson had the right to ask for the rematch in the case of a loss, didn't he? It's interesting, what about the case of a draw.
The WBC actually stated that the
winner of Stevenson-Jack must face Oleksandr Gvozdyk next (their actual words)... and I'm sure they didn't impose deadlines.
Last night's result was a draw, which means that a bout between Adonis Stevenson and Oleksandr Gvozdyk is clearly no certainty.
Imo, they must do a rematch.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 07:19
by candyslim
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 05:06
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:59
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:33
Stevenson had the right to ask for the rematch in the case of a loss, didn't he? It's interesting, what about the case of a draw.
The WBC actually stated that the
winner of Stevenson-Jack must face Oleksandr Gvozdyk next (their actual words)... and I'm sure they didn't impose deadlines.
Last night's result was a draw, which means that a bout between Adonis Stevenson and Oleksandr Gvozdyk is clearly no certainty.
Imo, they must do a rematch.
I agree. Cracking fight. You won't hear me complaining about sitting through that again.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 14:30
by Ruthless-RKO
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 14:38
by Deleted_Scenes
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:26
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 01:08
It'd be maddening if the WBC allow him to dick around and rematch Jack.
Badou Jack currently holds the top spot in the WBC's rankings.
Jack is ranked number 1, but Gvozdyk is the interim champion, so technically he's ahead of Jack in line for Stevenson's belt.
This is not the same as the Whyte/Breazeale situation, where a number 2 ranked fighter was named mandatory. Here, the mandatory holds a higher status than the number 1 ranked fighter.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 17:51
by Enlightened-One
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 14:38
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:26
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 01:08
It'd be maddening if the WBC allow him to dick around and rematch Jack.
Badou Jack currently holds the top spot in the WBC's rankings.
Jack is ranked number 1, but Gvozdyk is the interim champion, so technically he's ahead of Jack in line for Stevenson's belt.
This is not the same as the Whyte/Breazeale situation, where a number 2 ranked fighter was named mandatory. Here, the mandatory holds a higher status than the number 1 ranked fighter.
whyte holds a WBC belt also, had competed in an eliminator and was ahead of Breazeale prior to the American becoming the mandatory.
The WBC often applies their discretion, which overrides their own rules.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 17:59
by jamamb
so jack could be rated ahead of the interim champ?
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:02
by Enlightened-One
jamamb wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 17:59
so jack could be rated ahead of the interim champ?
The interim champion doesn't have a rating.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:04
by jamamb
they have a place in the heirachy though dont they?
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:17
by Enlightened-One
jamamb wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 18:04
they have a place in the heirachy though dont they?
I would hope that Oleksandr Gvozdyk is granted his shot at Stevenson before Jacks is given an opportunity to engage in a rematch against Stevenson, but there a few issues worth considering:
• The WBC’s rulebook state that they can exercise its sole discretion to permit exceptions to their own rules
• The WBC stated that the “winner” of the Stevenson-Jack contest must face, but there was no actual “winner” of that bout
• The WBC have a proven track record of applying their rules inconsistently
• The WBC have not imposed a deadline for their 175lbs champion to face Gvozdyk
For the record, I’m not proposing that the WBC would be “right” to allow Jack to face Stevenson before Gvozdyk, but I am suggesting that we should consider the possibility that the Ukrainian may not necessarily become the Canadian’s next opponent.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:18
by Mexi-Box
I have to wonder if they'll be sued up the ass if they force Jack/Stevenson: II. They'll have to pay Gvozdyk step-aside money. By the way, I'm surprised Whyte's team didn't sue WBC for what they did with Breazeale.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:20
by Enlightened-One
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 18:18
I have to wonder if they'll be sued up the ass if they force Jack/Stevenson: II. They'll have to pay Gvozdyk step-aside money.
Stevenson may not even need to pay Gvozdyk step-aside money if the WBC allows the Canadian to face the Swede again.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:21
by jamamb
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 18:17
jamamb wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 18:04
they have a place in the heirachy though dont they?
I would hope that Oleksandr Gvozdyk is granted his shot at Stevenson before Jacks is given an opportunity to engage in a rematch against Stevenson, but there a few issues worth considering:
• The WBC’s rulebook state that they can exercise its sole discretion to permit exceptions to their own rules
• The WBC stated that the “winner” of the Stevenson-Jack contest must face, but there was no actual “winner” of that bout
• The WBC have a proven track record of applying their rules inconsistently
• The WBC have not imposed a deadline for their 175lbs champion to face Gvozdyk
For the record, I’m not proposing that the WBC would be “right” to allow Jack to face Stevenson before Gvozdyk, but I am suggesting that we should consider the possibility that the Ukrainian may not necessarily become the Canadian’s next opponent.
ya i guess in the end these sanctioning bodies make sure they have the discretion to do what they want
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 18:41
by boxing_rocks
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:33
Stevenson had the right to ask for the rematch in the case of a loss, didn't he? It's interesting, what about the case of a draw.
No, he didn't. WBC clearly mandated that Gvozdyk is next.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 20 May 2018, 19:11
by KiwiRider
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 18:18
I have to wonder if they'll be sued up the ass if they force Jack/Stevenson: II. They'll have to pay Gvozdyk step-aside money. By the way, I'm surprised Whyte's team didn't sue WBC for what they did with Breazeale.
Re: Whyte
I believe there is legal action in the works.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 21 May 2018, 02:23
by Deleted_Scenes
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 17:51
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 14:38
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 04:26
Badou Jack currently holds the top spot in the WBC's rankings.
Jack is ranked number 1, but Gvozdyk is the interim champion, so technically he's ahead of Jack in line for Stevenson's belt.
This is not the same as the Whyte/Breazeale situation, where a number 2 ranked fighter was named mandatory. Here, the mandatory holds a higher status than the number 1 ranked fighter.
whyte holds a WBC belt also, had competed in an eliminator and was ahead of Breazeale prior to the American becoming the mandatory.
The WBC often applies their discretion, which overrides their own rules.
I'm not debating what the WBC do/don't do. We all know they're a total shambles.
The only point I was making is that Gvozdyk holds a higher status than Jack. The interim belt Gvozdyk holds is part of the lineage to the full WBC title. The holder can't be ranked, as they're effectively the 'standby' champion, until either the full title holder vacates or is stripped, or the two fight each other to resolve the situation. The silver title Whyte holds is different, as it is a totally separate (lesser) title to the full WBC belt. Holders are sometimes granted mandatory status, but holding the belt on its own does not guarantee that - the interim does.
In either case, if the WBC upheld their own rules (which we know they don't), Gvozdyk would be mandatory right now, and Whyte would either be mandatory now, or part of the final eliminator to be next mandatory (i.e. nobody else would be mandated to fight Wilder first).
I hope there isn't a Jack rematch, but only because it wasn't a great fight, and I thought Jack blew his chance. He doesn't deserve a second shot, based on Saturday.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 21 May 2018, 02:41
by Enlightened-One
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑21 May 2018, 02:23
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 17:51
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑20 May 2018, 14:38
Jack is ranked number 1, but Gvozdyk is the interim champion, so technically he's ahead of Jack in line for Stevenson's belt.
This is not the same as the Whyte/Breazeale situation, where a number 2 ranked fighter was named mandatory. Here, the mandatory holds a higher status than the number 1 ranked fighter.
whyte holds a WBC belt also, had competed in an eliminator and was ahead of Breazeale prior to the American becoming the mandatory.
The WBC often applies their discretion, which overrides their own rules.
I'm not debating what the WBC do/don't do. We all know they're a total shambles.
The only point I was making is that Gvozdyk holds a higher status than Jack. The interim belt Gvozdyk holds is part of the lineage to the full WBC title. The holder can't be ranked, as they're effectively the 'standby' champion, until either the full title holder vacates or is stripped, or the two fight each other to resolve the situation. The silver title Whyte holds is different, as it is a totally separate (lesser) title to the full WBC belt. Holders are sometimes granted mandatory status, but holding the belt on its own does not guarantee that - the interim does.
In either case, if the WBC upheld their own rules (which we know they don't), Gvozdyk would be mandatory right now, and Whyte would either be mandatory now, or part of the final eliminator to be next mandatory (i.e. nobody else would be mandated to fight Wilder first).
I hope there isn't a Jack rematch, but only because it wasn't a great fight, and I thought Jack blew his chance. He doesn't deserve a second shot, based on Saturday.
It seems that we agree on nearly all the points you've raised.
Re: whats the longest time a champ didnt make a mandatory defense?
Posted: 21 May 2018, 03:59
by BitPlayer
It was a draw, Jack II would be fine IMO