BoxRec

I would to ask for your opinion on what if Jimmy Ellis fought as a light heavyweight and how would he fare against the likes of Harold Johnson, Willie Pastrano, Joses Torres, Dick Tiger, Vicente Rondon and Bob Foster? He fought for a few fights as light heavyweight before jumping into the heavyweight ranks and eventually win the WBA Heavyweight title via the 8-man elimination bout. What is your opinion?

I think that Jimmy Ellis would have done very well at light heavyweight. Judging how Bob Foster did against heavyweights, I believe that Ellis would have beaten him at heavyweight. Maybe at light heavyweight too.

Just my opinion, bit I think that he beats the other guys mentioned too, but Torres, Johnson, and Tiger may have given Ellis a tough fight.

Jimmy probably should have stayed in the light heavyweight division, but the big money has always been in the heavyweight division.

Potential to be a top 5, top 10.

During his prime years, I think that Jimmy Ellis could beat any light heavyweight; possible exception of Bob Foster. After seeing how both Ellis and Foster fared against heavyweights, I believe that Ellis beats Foster at heavyweight. Ellis would have had a good chance to beat Foster at light heavy as well, IMO.

Floyd Patterson was my favorite boxer and I think that he should have gotten the decision in the Ellis fight, but I think that Ellis could have beaten any fighter that Patterson beat, with the possible exception of Johansson.

I wonder if Jimmy Ellis could beat the Eddie Cotton who fought both Harold Johnson and Jose Torres for their light heavyweight titles and yes, Ellis would have been a threat to Bob Foster's light heavyweight supremacy.

scorpio83 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2018, 05:10 I wonder if Jimmy Ellis could beat the Eddie Cotton who fought both Harold Johnson and Jose Torres for their light heavyweight titles and yes, Ellis would have been a threat to Bob Foster's light heavyweight supremacy.

Cotton was very good, but I think that Ellis takes him.

I wonder how would Jimmy Ellis do if he had fought Jose Torres at light heavyweight because Torres had the same peek-a-boo style as his stablemate Floyd Patterson who was robbed of winning the WBA Heavyweight title against Ellis. In my opinion, Torres would beat Ellis by decision in 15 rounds in his prime at light heavyweight. What is your opinion?

scorpio83 wrote: ↑25 Aug 2018, 05:25 I wonder how would Jimmy Ellis do if he had fought Jose Torres at light heavyweight because Torres had the same peek-a-boo style as his stablemate Floyd Patterson who was robbed of winning the WBA Heavyweight title against Ellis. In my opinion, Torres would beat Ellis by decision in 15 rounds in his prime at light heavyweight. What is your opinion?

Floyd Patterson was a better boxer than Jimmy Ellis. Jose Torres had a similar style to Patterson, but that doesn't mean he was better than Ellis. Torres and Ellis at light heavyweight would be an interesting match up.

Ellis had the most trouble with bigger men like Ali and Frazier at heavyweight. At light heavyweight, Jimmy Ellis would have a height and reach advantage over Jose Torres. I would have to go with Ellis.

What I don't mentioned specifically what if a prime Jose Torres who won from Willie Pastrano and successfully defended his world light heavyweight title 3 times before losing his title to former middleweight champion Dick Tiger, including a controversial loss in their rematch would beat the light heavyweight version of Jimmy Ellis? In my opinion, a prime Jose Torres as World Light Heavyweight champion would beat Jimmy Ellis.

Another opinion subject of Jimmy Ellis fighting at light heavyweight, how would he fare against Dick Tiger? In my opinion, Jimmy Ellis would use his height and reach advantage to out-box Tiger to a decision in 15 rounds. What is your opinion?

Does anyone happen to know exactly when Dundee became his trainer?
I believe most of, if not all of his fights at middleweight were pre-Dundee.
I don't think he would have been as successful at light heavyweight without Dundee.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Aug 2018, 10:53 Does anyone happen to know exactly when Dundee became his trainer?
I believe most of, if not all of his fights at middleweight were pre-Dundee.
I don't think he would have been as successful at light heavyweight without Dundee.

Ellis fought as a middleweight pre-Dundee. I think that Jimmy was too big to be fighting as a middleweight and was rushed into fighting contenders shortly after turning pro. To his credit, Jimmy was never stopped as a middleweight despite fighting guys like Hurricane Carter and George Benton.

I think that Ellis fought a couple of fights at about 175 lbs. when he first went with Dundee. The heavyweight division has always been more lucrative than the light heavyweight division, so Jimmy fought as a heavyweight after a couple of bouts at about 175 lbs. Also, as a heavyweight, Dundee had a good sparring partner for Muhammad Ali.

That was sometime early in 1965 that Jimmy Ellis went with Angelo.

Early 1965, OK that sounds about right. His career took off with Dundee. Agree that he was almost thrown to the wolves at middleweight a early on.
It is interesting that he stayed at light heavy for such as short time. But as you mentioned, that is where the big $ was.

scorpio83 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2018, 05:03 What I don't mentioned specifically what if a prime Jose Torres who won from Willie Pastrano and successfully defended his world light heavyweight title 3 times before losing his title to former middleweight champion Dick Tiger, including a controversial loss in their rematch would beat the light heavyweight version of Jimmy Ellis? In my opinion, a prime Jose Torres as World Light Heavyweight champion would beat Jimmy Ellis.

Another opinion subject of Jimmy Ellis fighting at light heavyweight, how would he fare against Dick Tiger? In my opinion, Jimmy Ellis would use his height and reach advantage to out-box Tiger to a decision in 15 rounds. What is your opinion?

I agree with you about Ellis and Tiger. As far as a Torres-Ellis fight, Torres was a great fighter, but I guess that we disagree on that one. Of course, I am assuming that Jimmy Ellis would be about as good as a light heavy as he was as a heavyweight. He may have lost a little of his punching power, but I think he would have been a very formidable light heavyweight.

Thanks for your opinion Scypion.

scorpio83 wrote: ↑29 Aug 2018, 05:41 Thanks for your opinion Scypion.

You are welcome. Ellis may have lost some power as a light heavy, but he may have been a little bit faster. As it was, he was as fast as any heavyweight during his prime other than Ali or Patterson.

Jimmy Ellis' career did take off under Dundee, but it helped when he went up in weight. He may have learned some things by sparring with Muhammad Ali as well.