BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑08 Jun 2018, 19:09 Charles Martin takes top billing.

Leon Spinks is definitely in the top five worst. He's certainly the absolute worst lineal champion.

Sergei Liyakovich (or however it's spelled) along with Sultan Imbragimov and Oleg Maskaev are also there.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:54 Briggs was a two-time champion.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

bigjack wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 11:05

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

I don't know much about the older champs so for me i'd say Spinks

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 11:10

bigjack wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 11:05

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

I don't know much about the older champs so for me i'd say Spinks

Some of the Depression era champs like Sharkey, Carnera and Braddock could be in the discussion.

Hart and Ingo too.

To clarify, none of these boxers were weak fighters. They simply didn't measure up to the bulk of true heavyweight champions.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:54 Briggs was a two-time champion.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 12:32

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:54 Briggs was a two-time champion.

He wasn't. "Beating" 49-yers-old George Foreman, who diidn't have any major titles for 2+ years by then (and in reality losing that fight clearly) doesn't make you a champion. If Lennox Lewis diceded to come back to the ring now he would still be a lineal HW chapion. Would you consider somebody like Jahannes Duhaupas a HW champion of the world for beating Lennox Lewis NOW?

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 12:57

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 12:32

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:54 Briggs was a two-time champion.

He wasn't. "Beating" 49-yers-old George Foreman, who diidn't have any major titles for 2+ years by then (and in reality losing that fight clearly) doesn't make you a champion. If Lennox Lewis diceded to come back to the ring now he would still be a lineal HW chapion. Would you consider somebody like Jahannes Duhaupas a HW champion of the world for beating Lennox Lewis NOW?

But Foreman didn't lose his titles in the ring. Just through politics. Pay no attention to sanctioning body shenanigans.

Foreman was the true lineal champ and Briggs beat him.

It doesn't matter if the decision seemed faulty. Briggs won the fight, beat the lineal champ and deserves recognition as a legitimate champion.

At least until Lewis beat him and became a lineal champion.

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 14:48 Think we might have covered this before with the late Kalan excelling himself

But Bruce Seldon springs to mind again as a very ho-hum owner of the WBA belt and even before Tyson cleaned his clock and effectively chucked him out of the division. Seldon would not fight again for close on eight years!

Charles Martin needs to be in the mix too as does Akinwande.........and James Smith despite some quality wins on his resume and pushing the top guys hard got Witherspoon at exactly the right rime and then fought a strange one against Tyson.

Feel that I am being hard on Smith.......there have been worse in the modern era.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 16:41

SenorPipino wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 10:32 Many of these alphabet champs, like a Herbie Hide, don't deserve to me mentioned as true heavyweight champions.

They just wore some shiny belt for a brief period. Nothing more.

Only lineal champions deserve consideration.

Damiani was a very good boxer. Barring one punch, he schooled Mercer.

DrDuke wrote: ↑08 Jun 2018, 17:25 Charles Martin is #1 here. No doubt. He won the vacant belt due to early opponent's injury. He walked this earth like a god for three months and then was landed on the earth like a sack in two rounds.

Valuev is #2 probably. He was awarded that belt against Ruiz twice, his opposition for defences was selected carefully to protect him as long as possible.

Those are really kinda shameful reigns. The others aren't close. For example, fringe short-termed champs like Liakhovich or Briggs at least went there and showed, that they were able to take their belts. Secondary short-termed champs of 80s also were tough. People often run at Jess Willard, but he absolutely fairly won his belt from the reigning champion, who had looked invincible before.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 06:20 The question should be, can you envisage your choice beating any champ in history at all? If not, that's your man.

With that in mind, Charles Martin is the obvious worst of the worst. No discernible talent, won a belt he should never have been boxing for on a freak injury, lost it on two punches, both of which knocked him down, the second one convincing him not beat the count. There has literally never been a less talented, more pathetic 'champion' in recorded history. Who can you picture him beating? Absolutely no one, I would hope.

Regarding lineal, I think calling Leon Spinks the worst is totally wrong. Leon was nuts and only dedicated himself to one full, disciplined training camp in his life, but that time he did it he showed that he had the intangibles. Surely you can see fit, aggressive, focused Spinks of that night bulldozing Hart, Burns et al? Out-working Willard, Carnera, Braddock, Briggs, Rahman? Leon with his brother's sane bent would have been a very good fighter. Personally I struggle to see Marvin Hart beating anyone--accept probably the aforementioned alphabet champ Charles Martin.