BoxRec

Okay...we've taken a close look at a couple of other Bugner fights. How about Bugner's 1977 points loss to Ron Lyle? I would really like to know what the Boxing News writers had to say about that one.

Prewarboxing: can you post Graham Houston's analysis of this fight?

Thanks in advance!

I absolutely do not want to breach any copyright issues by putting a few of these reports up. If you read this Graham, can you send me a PM if you object.

Miles Templeton.

screenshot windows 7

Thanks for posting this. I'm disappointed that Graham didn't tell us how he scored this bout. That's what really interested me. Otherwise, I agree with his analysis.

Bugner really let the British public down in this one. We all thought he would come out firing as he had against Richard Dunn, and Lyle was right there for the taking, but instead he allowed Lyle to outwork him and outpoint him on sheer desire. Bugner didn't want it enough.

This was a great fight. What was surprising is that it was Lyle (who was older) who came on towards the end to pull this out. Very intense fight. Wouldn't say that Bugner was lethargic; that is an exaggeration. He fought well, just not quite well enough.

Bugner had broken a small foot bone in training going into this fight.
( see the-Joe Bugner-What If ? and Why Not ? thread at this forum).

mercman wrote: ↑03 Jul 2018, 08:36 I disagree with the article posted inasmuch as it claims that Bugner was soundly outpointed by Lyle.

Initially, Iwas dismayed to see that Graham judged the fight in that way. The word "soundly" really resounded with me. Something really bad for Bugner.

However, I looked up the meaning of "soundly." It doesn't mean "overwhelmingly," or "decisively." It merely means "convincingly." Therefore, a fighter beaten in a a close but clear way -- like Bugner was against Lyle -- could be described having been soundly defeated.

I've watched the fight numerous times myself. It's painfully difficult to score. Sometimes I've seen it as a draw. Other times I've had Lyle winning by margins of one to three points. As close as the fight was, I agree that Lyle was clearly the deserving winner.

Of the three judges who scored this fight, two of them may have been off the mark. One had Lyle winning 8-3-1, which I thought was unreasonable. Another had Bugner winning 6-5-1,, which was unfair to Lyle. The third judge had it accurately, IMO, at 6-4-2 for Lyle.

As for Graham, I regard his analysis as the gold standard of boxing writing. I'm especially interested in the British sports and boxing writers of the 1960s and 1970s. I think they were the best. I trust Graham most out of all of them.

Again, I wish I knew how Graham scored Bugner-Lyle in rounds.

mercman wrote: ↑03 Jul 2018, 08:36 Either way, Bugner's gone on record as saying that Lyle hurt him more than anybody did: broken ribs, pissing blood for days, etc.

Incidentally, I heard that Lyle's nose was broken in this fight. So Joe clearly did some damage to him.

This is just the way I saw it. Ron Lyle against Joe Bugner, 5 point must system employed in Las Vegas.

Round 1: 5-4 Lyle
Round 2: 5-4 Lyle
Round 3: 5-4 Lyle
Round 4: 5-5 Even
Round 5: 5-4 Bugner
Round 6: 5-4 Bugner
Round 7: 5-4 Lyle
Round 8: 5-5 Even
Round 9: 5-4 Bugner
Round 10: 5-4 Lyle
Round 11: 5-4 Lyle
Round 12: 5-5 Even

Total: 57-54 Lyle

I just felt Lyle was the sharper hitter throughout although Joe had his moments. Officially, it was a split win for Ron and they utilized the novelty of posting their scores between rounds as well.

Trying to score this fight is always an agonizing experience. In many rounds it's hard to make the difference between a Lyle, Bugner, or even score. But here's how I found it when I watched it again yesterday.

Round 1: Lyle
Round 2: Even
Round 3: Bugner
Round 4: Even
Round 5: Bugner
Round 6: Bugner
Round 7: Lyle
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Bugner
Round 10: Lyle
Round 11: Lyle
Round 12: Lyle

Final score, 5-4-3 in rounds, for Lyle. In points, that 56-55 for Lyle.

did you also make a seperate count how many right hands to Bugners kidney's over 12 rounds ?

Caractacus wrote: ↑05 Jul 2018, 13:28 did you also make a seperate count how many right hands to Bugners kidney's over 12 rounds ?

I completely overlooked that. Did you see many illegal kidney shots? I took it for granted that Lyle's body shots were legitimate punches to the liver.

I didn't notice the referee warning Lyle about kidney shots either.

Las Vegas Sun (Newspaper) - March 18, 1977, Las Vegas, Nevada

Bugner Denies He Has Ailment

Bv MIKE MARLEY SUN
Sports Writer

Is there something physically wrong with heavyweight boxer Joe Bugner? The 27-year-old fighter from Great Britain, who meets seventh-ranked Ron Lyle in a 12-round, nationally-televised fight Sunday noon at Caesars Palace, said Thursday that be is in top condition His manager-trainer, Andy Smith, was quick to vouch for the No. 4 contender’s good health. But there is a lingering doubt because Bugner has made at least three visits this week to Desert Springs Hospital to see physical therapist Keith D. Kleven.

Smith wore a pained expression when The SUN questioned him about the the nightly, post-workout trips. “It was not for Bugner,” the manager said. “It was for his older brother, Bill. There is nothing wrong with Bugner. Bill hurt his ankle.” Smith later went into the boxer’s dressing room and motioned for this reporter to come in after he huddled with both Bugners. “Did I look sick?” the 6-4, 226-pounder asked. “No problems. If I did have some. I would tell you.” “I twisted my ankle, Bill Bugner said. “And he (Joe) just came along for the drive. I can't drive.”

It’s hard to believe anything serious is hampering Bugner. He has been pounding on sparmate Oliver Phillips the past few days and worked four rounds with the Las Vegan Thursday. Both the fighter and Smith confidently predicted a victory over the 35-year old Lyle. Smith continued to expound on one of his favorite subjects, Bugner's physical maturity. “What happens to Joe Bugner to what happens to everybody in life, he has matured,” the Scotsman said. “He hasn’t got that natural colored rhythm. He's like any European, any white heavyweight in the world. They don't mature until 26-27 years of age.” That seems like a slightly racist remark but Smith didn’t intend it to be one.

“Joe took a 12-month rest (after losing a title fight decision in Malaysia to Muhammad All) and he’s coming back with a venom to win the world's title,” Smith said. “All of his fights before that one-year retirement, the fights with Ali and Frazier, were experience. “I didn't expect him to beat Ali (when they fought a 12-rounder in Las Vega defend himself well,” Smith said. “But the inexperienced days are over. “Joe has physical durability now," he said. “If it’s necessary to move around and use left jabs, then good. Joe can do that. If it’s necessary to take shots and give shots, he'll do that.”

Smith became angry when mention was made of the literary lashing Bugner took from British sports writers for what they said was lack of daring in the June 30, 1975, title go in sweltering Kuala Lumpur. “That's all under the water as far as I’m concerned,” Smith said. “I'm not concerned with what happened prior to his retirement.”

Bugner was a close but solid favorite to win. Slightly better than 2-1 odds.

ron4972 wrote: ↑06 Jul 2018, 12:59

Bugner was a close by solid favorite to win. Slightly better than 2-1 odds.

Most likely Joe Bugner' and his manager read that and decided to go ahead with the fight with a broken foot bone and cortizone in it so he could't feel where his foot was on the canvas.

ron4972 wrote: ↑05 Jul 2018, 14:13

Caractacus wrote: ↑05 Jul 2018, 13:28 did you also make a seperate count how many right hands to Bugners kidney's over 12 rounds ?

I completely overlooked that. Did you see many illegal kidney shots? I took it for granted that Lyle's body shots were legitimate punches to the liver.

I didn't notice the referee warning Lyle about kidney shots either.

yeah,Joe Bugner said in an interview that he thought he was okay after the fight,then woke up in the middle of the night
in sever pain,he phoned his brother and he was rushed to the hospital and it was found he had internal bleeding from the kidney punches.He said he could have died that night.

mercman wrote: ↑06 Jul 2018, 16:24 Never seen that article before. Nice find, Ron

It's interesting also that the article was written by Mike Marley. Have you been following his stuff these past decades? I didn't realize Marley was writing as early as 1977.