BoxRec

Why can one fighter take a punch while another can't; is there some anatomical science that argues the case? Is it bone structure or will power; neck muscles or character? I mean, what arguments are out there? I'll listen to any argument anybody has read about or holds on the topic; maybe you have heard fighters talk of why, or you have had a personal experience.

I read once (and I'm serious about this, serious only in that I read it,) that Chavez had an unusually thick skull and that's why he didn't react to punches and seemed to walk through his opponents; being very difficult to hurt.

OK here we go . . . so can I now go semi-racist and say that Chavez and Monzon came from similar Indian blood and that's why both were very difficult if not impossible to hurt/stop, because they had extra thick skulls in their Indian blood line?

I know, I know, . . . is there even such thing as an extra thick skull, and if so, would it make a difference?

When the only information you can find on the topic comes from a boxing magazine, you end up with things like the 'extra thick skull argument,' and I'm pretty sure the best possible education that writer had was a BA in Journalism, maybe.

Here's another one I suffered, coming from a semi-ignorant source instead, my doctor at the time (the late eighties,) insisted that Mike Tyson could never be knocked out because his neck muscles where so strong they disallowed enough head movement for there to be a concussion. Unfortunately I wasn't still going to him come Douglas; it turned out his theory didn't apply to viscous uppercuts.

On the serious side, there was recently an article in Scientific American claiming that red heads have a higher threshold for pain than brunettes and blonds, and that was clinically tested enough to make it into Scientific American. Unfortunately they didn't see fit to speculate on how it might affect prize fighting.

So I am open for any opinion anyone has; anatomical or character? Hell I'll even consider the racial and cultural arguments, why not? Does anyone know, or think they know why?

A short thick neck can help. Probably just down to genetics, also some fighters just don't take many flush shots, especially the more defensive or cautious ones.

That's genetics. An ability of neurons not to fail after the concussion. There's always a concussion after a punch to the head. Every good punch, especially to the chin, makes brain shake and hit the skull. Somebody can take it, somebody can't, that individual feature, a work by neurons, that can't be developed. Things like strong neck can help in some way, it is considered, that it helps to hold head to some extent, so probably brain shakes with lower intensity and thus hits the skull with less force. But first the brain itself can be persistent to punches or not.

As a head injury specialist I can speak to some of this. I've been curious about the same questions.

Here are some basic truths.

1. Though their may be measurable and ascertainable differences between the races and our DNA regarding our ability or inability to absorb a punch, I think it's best to let this one go. Simply because the differnces that could be ascertained across 1000 or even 10,000 participants I guarantee would be nominal. Though the math would end up in someones favor. And WAY WAY too much would be made of it. Because the individual variances would be WAY MORE RELEVANT than any "common thread" of measurable outcomes. I hope you understand this, because it's very important in many many ways when we talk about our DNA histories.


2. The "physics of collisions" is a much more interesting discussion, as NO TWO COLLISIONS are the same. KO's and even KD's and even "head shots" are all like fingerprints or snowflakes, (I thought about not using that word lol) as NO TWO ARE IDENTICAL. As is the case with head injuries.....including KO's. Which can be classified as a head injury.


(I'm convinced that Hearns hit Hagler hard enough to KO a bull elepahnt, but the bone structure of his hand gave way and in it's ever so slight collapsing probably cushioned the impact enought to just stun Hagler. Who may well have had a far greater than average strength noggin as well. So that was likely quite a fingerprint punch of it's own.

3. Under perfect circumstances, a perfectly timed shot, to the most vulnerable angle of the jaw/head can do an amazing amount of damge....maybe the most controversial KD's or KO's speak to some of that....( you can pick the controversy and as you do, never fully disount the possibility of deception) Boxers are trained not be "set up" and to work on keeping angles and barriers going, to their defensive advantage. But teach a man to hit, and another to be perfectly vulnerable....and OUILA! a very big man can go down at the hands of even a small man or woman.


So even the George Chuvalo's of the world, Or the Ali's, Haglers, Tuas etc (those we have learned to assume were "above the average" in abilit to avoid catastrophe....MAY or MAY not have had any genuine "dna advanatage".


Oops....


4. Yep, the strength of the muscles surrounding your neck and length/height of your neck can have one of the biggest effect/affects on one's vulnerability and thus on this discussion. And those advantages are often fairly viewable......but even then...it's no lock. Tua, Tyson, McCall and Chuvalo might fit that...but there are others like Ali, Hagler, Ray where it might not be as obvious....and you'd have to look for skill, ability, reaction times to explain it.


Not sure that helps, but it gave me a chance to practice my typing skills.


P.S. A KO is not painful.....and experiencing the FEELING of pain....JUST MIGHT be helpful in keeping you going and conscious....even if you wish the fight was over, and your opponent would just go away.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑04 Jul 2018, 18:18

P.S. A KO is not painful.....and experiencing the FEELING of pain....JUST MIGHT be helpful in keeping you going and conscious....even if you wish the fight was over, and your opponent would just go away.

Absolutely. People often doubt a fighter when they say the hardest puncher they faced was someone they beat and not the noted puncher who knocked them out. Simple fact is people don't remember being knocked out, it happens in a split second but being repeatedly punched will hurt.

Battling Nelson had a 17 inch neck at 133 pounds.

gettng stopped clean cold might not be painful but thats pretty rare

#1- Visualizing the Punch; George Chuvalo always said that if he imagined the punches landing that they didn't hurt anywhere near as bad. Guess you can chalk it up to mind over matter.

#2- Conditioning; if you push your body to the limit and go beyond your limit, you condition your body to take a helluva lot of abuse. Rocky Marciano was arguably the most conditioned fighter of the first half of the 20th century, and could take alot of punches.

#3- Riding With the Punches; Jake LaMotta pointed out that despite his reputation for toughness, he rolled with the punches, which took the edge off the power from his opponents. A 100% power shot would be diminished to 50% or less when doing this.

#4- Angles; if a punch is coming straight from the shoulder its efficiency is at optimum best. If a punch is going downwards, there's very little power there. If a punch is going upwards, it's pretty powerful because all that energy from the floor through the legs and torso is being amplified.

#5- Arm Swings vs Body Weight Shifted; most punches in boxing are not power punches (jabs, for example). You cannot box and punch at the same time, you have to stop and plant your feet to slug. So as a consequence, you are most likely never going to knock someone out with arm swings unless you're a freak like Sonny Liston will tremendous power.

#6- Walking Into a Shot; your momentum can be used against you with horrible consequences. If they're throwing, shifting their weight forward, and you step into it... You'll be lucky if you are not knocked out.

#7- Physicalities; If you have a short thick neck, and thick broad bones you're going to take a better shot naturally than someone who isn't that way. Guys like that are also naturally stronger too because their body can naturally support more weight. But even these guys can be dropped (Tex Cobb vs Dee Collier) if they're hit at the right place at the right time.

#8- Timing is Everything; how could someone like Sam Langford (5'6" 160 pounds) knock out guys like Gunboat Smith? Or guys like Jimmy Wilde knock out men who outweighed him by as much as 100 pounds in carnivals as a teenager? Split second timing. Despite their diminutive size, they had such accuracy and precision and timing that physically superior men dropped like stones (and often).

#9- Mentality; some men the moment they lose by knockout, never again have the confidence that they once had that carried them through pain and suffering. If you have an unshakable belief in yourself, you'd be surprised the kind of stuff you can go through.

#10- Not Used to It; its funny considering this is the "pain business" but alot of boxers are either such dynamite punchers or speedsters that they never really get tapped... And when they finally do get touched by someone whose figured them out... They fold like an acordian.

Additional Note:

It doesn't take much power as it is anyways to knock a man out no matter who they are; just a few PSI on the point of the chin and almost always someone is gone. Just a few more PSI right at the temple, and almost always someone is gone. That's why DEFENSE is king in boxing.