BoxRec

I mean will people say about him that he was a hyped fighter and when he has stepped up he got problems ?

Some will call him overrated but who's not.

I can't see how Canelo can beat GGG easily unless Abel Sanchez really screws up big time.
It's almost 100% certain that Canelo will fight the same fight again as he did last time. It would be criminal not to prepare thoroughly for that.

Even if GGG misfires badly, carrying injuries, poor biorhythms that day, or external problems etc and happens to get 'schooled' by the surprisingly slick Canelo I'm sure GGG will remain a huge threat to anyone else in the division for a while yet.

As far as I'm concerned he's the best since Hagler. Marvin did right in not coming back after Leonard refused the rematch - there was nothing left to prove. His record is virtually unblemished and will always remain that way.

Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

phillykid wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 15:32 Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

IMO Golovkin did more than these 3

It's a pity we couldn't see a younger GGG vs Sturm, Martinez, Quillin or even Cotto back in the days. He was avoided like plague.

phillykid wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 15:32 Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

He'd be held in higher regard than Martinez. He was a better champion than him.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 20:14

phillykid wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 15:32 Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

He'd be held in higher regard than Martinez. He was a better champion than him.

I agree with this. GGG that fought Alvarez or Jacobs would stop the best version of Martinez (PW II , Pavlik).

apollo creed wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 12:09 I mean will people say about him that he was a hyped fighter and when he has stepped up he got problems ?

He's older now. Age 36. Most think GGG won the first fight.

I'll see him as an elite fighter who, due to a variety of factors (starting late, spending most of his best years overseas facing lesser opposition, getting robbed against Canelo, etc) didn't have as conclusive a career as he should've. He could've been rated among the great MW champs. I think he had that ability. If Canelo beats him in a rematch it's more down to age at this point than anything else.

People are already calling GGG long in the tooth. He has a couple of fights against top competition and he's considered to be under performing for not knocking them out. That's the thing that I don't get about boxing. Floyd and Manny have had to hear about how many fights they've had without a knockout but no one is considering that each fight they had towards the end of the their careers has been top notch guys that just don't get knocked out.

I think GGG will get a ton of credit for beating Canelo if that happens. But if Canelo gets the win and it's a legitimate win and not a Golden Boy Vegas Special then they will not give Canelo the proper credit because of GGG's age. I think that Canelo is in a no win situation especially coming off the PED situation. If he looks poor then his career will be looked at like a pharmaceutical mirage.

apollo creed wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 12:09 if Canelo beats him clearly

Not gonna happen.

Maybe similar to Jeff Fenech.

Fenech had an excellent career then ran into Azumah Nelson. Most thought he won the first bout except the judges so they had a rematch & Fenech got stopped (by an all time great).

Fenech still highly regarded & very respected but a level below the top top fighters.

I'd view GGG in a similar way if he comprehensively lost in September.

But I think the fight will be similar although interesting to see how Canelo looks after his 'interesting' year.

Lucian Bute had 10 title wins before he caught a big loss. Prior to that, some people argued that he should be ranked above Andre Ward.
Arthur Abraham had 11 title wins before he caught a loss. Prior to that, some people argued that he should be ranked #1 above Kelly Pavlik (in hindsight, both were worse than we thought).
Celestino Caballero had 11 world title wins before he started catching losses. He was courting a top 15 p4p slot at the time.
Chris John had 16 world title wins, including a win over a legend, before he caught a loss.
Dariusz Michalczewski had 23 world title defenses before catching a loss.
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam had 19 world title defenses.

Yeah, if Golovkin lost to Alvarez and retired, I think people would eventually come to regard him as a Michalczewski or a super Bute.

Golovkin is a great fighter regardless of the outcome. I think Canelo is quite underrated by most and would be by far GGGs biggest win. I take nothing away from GGG if he loses clearly to Canelo (because frankly I'm quite high on Canelo and the skills he possess in the ring). I'm not super impressed with his record but he did enough to prove he's a formidable force against any fighter the division has ever had. I don't think he should be ranked above Hopkins, Monzon or Hagler and maybe a few others but his name clearly belongs among the top of the division historically. It is a shame he hasn't had that career defining win or a deep resume, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I've been so critical of his career.

NateJR wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 04:44 Golovkin is a great fighter regardless of the outcome. I think Canelo is quite underrated by most and would be by far GGGs biggest win. I take nothing away from GGG if he loses clearly to Canelo (because frankly I'm quite high on Canelo and the skills he possess in the ring). I'm not super impressed with his record but he did enough to prove he's a formidable force against any fighter the division has ever had. I don't think he should be ranked above Hopkins, Monzon or Hagler and maybe a few others but his name clearly belongs among the top of the division historically. It is a shame he hasn't had that career defining win or a deep resume, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I've been so critical of his career.

Agree with everything you wrote here

Cent0089 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 06:25

NateJR wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 04:44 Golovkin is a great fighter regardless of the outcome. I think Canelo is quite underrated by most and would be by far GGGs biggest win. I take nothing away from GGG if he loses clearly to Canelo (because frankly I'm quite high on Canelo and the skills he possess in the ring). I'm not super impressed with his record but he did enough to prove he's a formidable force against any fighter the division has ever had. I don't think he should be ranked above Hopkins, Monzon or Hagler and maybe a few others but his name clearly belongs among the top of the division historically. It is a shame he hasn't had that career defining win or a deep resume, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I've been so critical of his career.

Agree with everything you wrote here

I also agree.

NateJR wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 04:44 Golovkin is a great fighter regardless of the outcome. I think Canelo is quite underrated by most and would be by far GGGs biggest win. I take nothing away from GGG if he loses clearly to Canelo (because frankly I'm quite high on Canelo and the skills he possess in the ring). I'm not super impressed with his record but he did enough to prove he's a formidable force against any fighter the division has ever had. I don't think he should be ranked above Hopkins, Monzon or Hagler and maybe a few others but his name clearly belongs among the top of the division historically. It is a shame he hasn't had that career defining win or a deep resume, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I've been so critical of his career.

If he beats Canelo, then AS A MIDDLEWEIGHT, he should be rated above Hopkins. Maybe even rated above Hopkins in general.

Cent0089 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 16:15

phillykid wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 15:32 Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

IMO Golovkin did more than these 3

Did more than Martinez can be debated. I agree but beating Paul WIlliams and Kelly Pavlik, Martin Murray and Chavez Jr isnt that far off from GGG run. Canelo close win/draw, Murray, Lemieux, Jacobs, and not much else and for post sake a loss to Canelo its better than Martinez but not by a lot. Even JT (2) Hopkins wins, Spinks, Winky Wright. GGG has better resume but again not that much difference. GGG also has longevity but again not that far off.

I also, much as I love ggg, would temper that enthusiasm about ranking above all those guys just yet.

world ranked wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 18:59

Cent0089 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 16:15

phillykid wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 15:32 Probably the same way people remember Jermain Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, and Sergio Martinez.

Middleweights who were good for their time, but fell short of accomplishing enough to be considered among the all time greats in the division.

IMO Golovkin did more than these 3

Did more than Martinez can be debated. I agree but beating Paul WIlliams and Kelly Pavlik, Martin Murray and Chavez Jr isnt that far off from GGG run. Canelo close win/draw, Murray, Lemieux, Jacobs, and not much else and for post sake a loss to Canelo its better than Martinez but not by a lot. Even JT (2) Hopkins wins, Spinks, Winky Wright. GGG has better resume but again not that much difference. GGG also has longevity but again not that far off.

No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.

Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)

Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.

Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 23:04

world ranked wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 18:59

Cent0089 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 16:15

IMO Golovkin did more than these 3

Did more than Martinez can be debated. I agree but beating Paul WIlliams and Kelly Pavlik, Martin Murray and Chavez Jr isnt that far off from GGG run. Canelo close win/draw, Murray, Lemieux, Jacobs, and not much else and for post sake a loss to Canelo its better than Martinez but not by a lot. Even JT (2) Hopkins wins, Spinks, Winky Wright. GGG has better resume but again not that much difference. GGG also has longevity but again not that far off.

No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.

Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)

Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.

Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.

It's worth mentioning that the Murray fight took place when Martinez was clearly past his best and the Cotto fight he w aas completely shot, due to no longer having full use of his legs, which were arguably his greatest asset as a boxer. There's a very good chance a prime Martinez would have beaten Cotto. Also the Murray fight was close and controversial, but not a clear robbery.

That said, I agree that GGG clearly ranks above Martinez, Pavlik and Taylor, regardless of what happens in the Canelo rematch.

golovkin has a lot of decent wins but nothing that impressive. if he doesnt ever get that good win vs a top flight fighter to me it greatly limits his maximum rating. guys like lemieux and murray and geale etc are really nothing in a historical context. jacobs make him look ultra limited and 114-113'd him imo.

but i think even if he loses the rematch he defo still rates higher then guys like bute and abraham that were mentioned. but a guy like dariusz....i think at best gggs even with him. and i have no idea why people act like golovkins just levels above a guy like jermain taylor.

jezzamundo wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 00:22

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 23:04

world ranked wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 18:59

Did more than Martinez can be debated. I agree but beating Paul WIlliams and Kelly Pavlik, Martin Murray and Chavez Jr isnt that far off from GGG run. Canelo close win/draw, Murray, Lemieux, Jacobs, and not much else and for post sake a loss to Canelo its better than Martinez but not by a lot. Even JT (2) Hopkins wins, Spinks, Winky Wright. GGG has better resume but again not that much difference. GGG also has longevity but again not that far off.

No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.

Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)

Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.

Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.

It's worth mentioning that the Murray fight took place when Martinez was clearly past his best and the Cotto fight he w aas completely shot, due to no longer having full use of his legs, which were arguably his greatest asset as a boxer. There's a very good chance a prime Martinez would have beaten Cotto. Also the Murray fight was close and controversial, but not a clear robbery.

That said, I agree that GGG clearly ranks above Martinez, Pavlik and Taylor, regardless of what happens in the Canelo rematch.

It's all definitely hindsight. Martinez was the overwhelming favorite against Cotto and was still rated p4p, I think it was #4 or #5 at the time. Someone that doesn't have full use of his legs wouldn't run at full speed to try and cold-clock someone like he did when Cotto thought he heard the bell ring. Martinez was never in Cotto's league is all. He's also not in Golovkin's league.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 23:04

world ranked wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 18:59

Cent0089 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2018, 16:15

IMO Golovkin did more than these 3

Did more than Martinez can be debated. I agree but beating Paul WIlliams and Kelly Pavlik, Martin Murray and Chavez Jr isnt that far off from GGG run. Canelo close win/draw, Murray, Lemieux, Jacobs, and not much else and for post sake a loss to Canelo its better than Martinez but not by a lot. Even JT (2) Hopkins wins, Spinks, Winky Wright. GGG has better resume but again not that much difference. GGG also has longevity but again not that far off.

No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.

Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)

Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.

Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.

Plus Macklin destroyed by Golovkin in 3 was competitive with Sergio and dropped him.