BoxRec

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Usyk stoppage is tempting. Decisions, decisions. I'll go the safe bet and just say Usyk absolutely schools him worse than he just did Gassiev.

Gassiev is a midget in stature and power compared to Joshua.

Usyk will have to do a lot more than jab and move to beat a huge heavyweight.

If Usyk is 6'3" then it's with a Roger Maris asterisk.

He'll actually have to cut the distance and get close to be effective versus the Brit.

And when (if) he does, lights out for Usyk.

I watched recently usyk v joy Joyce. He punched holes in the much bigger Joyce for 5 rounds. I don’t have any comment on where Joyce was in terms of his boxing. I believe the commentators said it was very early days. But usyk had not problem negating the size with his skill.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 18:39 Gassiev is a midget in stature and power compared to Joshua.

Usyk will have to do a lot more than jab and move to beat a huge heavyweight.

If Usyk is 6'3" then it's with a Roger Maris asterisk.

He'll actually have to cut the distance and get close to be effective versus the Brit.

And when (if) he does, lights out for Usyk.

Explain Usyk schooling the current hot HW fighter in Joe Joyce then. Joshua is nothing that Usyk hasn't seen. Usyk struggles more with midgets than big fighters like Joshua.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 18:39 Gassiev is a midget in stature and power compared to Joshua.

Usyk will have to do a lot more than jab and move to beat a huge heavyweight.

If Usyk is 6'3" then it's with a Roger Maris asterisk.

He'll actually have to cut the distance and get close to be effective versus the Brit.

And when (if) he does, lights out for Usyk.

putting heavyweight aside, how did you rate usyks performance, i know you said he was overrated and were picking gas. the fight was actually more one sided then munguia vs smith

and tbh usyk seems pretty close to 6'3 to me, cant really say that seems like a bogus listing

lazboy wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 18:42 I watched recently usyk v joy Joyce. He punched holes in the much bigger Joyce for 5 rounds. I don’t have any comment on where Joyce was in terms of his boxing. I believe the commentators said it was very early days. But usyk had not problem negating the size with his skill.

Joe Joyce's in-ring performances in the pro ranks have generally been very poor to-date.

He should not be used as a barometer to gauge Usyk's potential in the heavyweight division.

I'm not saying this for the sake of being contrary either, since I've consistently criticised Joe Joyce's performances, because he persistently fails to impress.

Usyk just boxed and moved for 12 rounds v Gassiev... he's not the second coming.
Joshua way too big and strong against a guy who hasn't got the power to hurt him.
Staying out of trouble would be his only chance and I cannot see that happening for the full 12.

He wasn't even close to stopping Gassiev yet you think he beats Joshua now?? It's absolutely laughable.

I'll wait and see if he can beat Bellew before even talking about a guy who he gives three stones in weight away to.

sharpei_louis wrote: ↑22 Jul 2018, 16:27 Usyk just boxed and moved for 12 rounds v Gassiev... he's not the second coming.
Joshua way too big and strong against a guy who hasn't got the power to hurt him.
Staying out of trouble would be his only chance and I cannot see that happening for the full 12.

He wasn't even close to stopping Gassiev yet you think he beats Joshua now?? It's absolutely laughable.

I'll wait and see if he can beat Bellew before even talking about a guy who he gives three stones in weight away to.

whats your prediction for him vs bellew

and hes beaten gassiev, briedis, glowacki, and huck, do you really need to wait on him beating bellew? lets say he does that, then what?

btw you already talked about him vs the 3 stone heavier guy

I talked about him v Joshua in response to a number of other posts about him doing so, I wasn't suggesting it myself, which is pretty clear.

I think he beats Bellew on points but Bellew does a hell of a lot better than Gassiev and is a much better version at this stage of his career than Huck was.

I'm not rolling out the red carpet for Usyk as p4p after wins over Breidis or Glowacki just yet. I think Usyk is a world class fighter but am not committed to thinking that cw is as deep a division as some are.

And I'm not suggesting he's got anything left to prove at CW, but at least the Hayes of the world took a real punch up with them... I don't know if Usyk's excellent boxing would take him as far in an improving hw division as many threads are suggesting, and certainly not top of the tree.

i mean do you rank ggg or crawford or spence in p4p? did you have kovalev ranked? because there opp theyve beat really isnt better then usyks

sharpei_louis wrote: ↑22 Jul 2018, 18:46 I talked about him v Joshua in response to a number of other posts about him doing so, I wasn't suggesting it myself, which is pretty clear.

I think he beats Bellew on points but Bellew does a hell of a lot better than Gassiev and is a much better version at this stage of his career than Huck was.

I'm not rolling out the red carpet for Usyk as p4p after wins over Breidis or Glowacki just yet. I think Usyk is a world class fighter but am not committed to thinking that cw is as deep a division as some are.

And I'm not suggesting he's got anything left to prove at CW, but at least the Hayes of the world took a real punch up with them... I don't know if Usyk's excellent boxing would take him as far in an improving hw division as many threads are suggesting, and certainly not top of the tree.

You'd be foolish not to considering consensus p4p lists include Crawford and Lomachenko who haven't had wins equivalent to a Briedis or Gassiev. It isn't just the wins, but the CW division is one of, if not the, strongest division in boxing.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑22 Jul 2018, 21:08You'd be foolish not to considering consensus p4p lists include Crawford and Lomachenko who haven't had wins equivalent to a Briedis or Gassiev. It isn't just the wins, but the CW division is one of, if not the, strongest division in boxing.

I think the cruiserweight division is now one of the weakest divisions in boxing. It was a lot stronger with Guillermo Jones, Denis Lebedev, Marco Huck, Tomasz Adamek, and when Steve Cunningham was in his prime. It is a competitive division, but not a strong one in my opinion.

RScarf1 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2018, 21:44

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑22 Jul 2018, 21:08You'd be foolish not to considering consensus p4p lists include Crawford and Lomachenko who haven't had wins equivalent to a Briedis or Gassiev. It isn't just the wins, but the CW division is one of, if not the, strongest division in boxing.

I think the cruiserweight division is now one of the weakest divisions in boxing. It was a lot stronger with Guillermo Jones, Denis Lebedev, Marco Huck, Tomasz Adamek, and when Steve Cunningham was in his prime. It is a competitive division, but not a strong one in my opinion.

Denis Lebedev had a razor close fight with Gassiev (while he was on a monstrous streak), Steven Cunningham got dominated by Glowacki, and Marco Huck got beat by both Briedis, Glowacki, and Usyk. Also, Huck was nowhere near shot when he fought any of these men. He still had enough to beat Afolabi and Kucher. I don't even think he was past prime. The new guard is just so good at the moment.

Funny that Lebedev and Huck were both heavy favorites going into the fight where they got beat by the new guard. You can't just automatically say either were past prime. You may as well say any loss is just a fighter being past prime. If anything, Lebedev was around #1 or #2 in the world and Huck was up there in ratings too (I forget what he was rated when he lost to Glowacki).

Absolutely no way this division is weaker than the era of Jones, Huck, and Cunningham. These guys are putting on clinics against the old guard.

leb and huck were at high points in there careers when they lost to gas and glowacki . leb had just become unified champ and huck was looking to break into the us

i dont think a guy like yoan pablo hernandez is really better then the guys around today and he beat cung twice

i think the divisions not weak at all, maybe not as strong as some say, but certainly not one of the weakest. i think it will always have ppl who dont really rate it though, its been historically looked down upon as almost a lesser hw

I think its a decent division.
Usyk is a top quality fighter, but lw-mw p4p are much better divisions imo and on that basis I don't have him up there, whether you think I'm foolish or not.

AJ is too big and too strong for Usyk, it's impossible run away during 12 rounds in this fight so I think AJ would catch him and knock him out.

Obviously there's some polar opposite fundamentalist views about the current state of the CW division, as there are for the HW division. It probably suggests it's 'okay without being overly terrible or overly great.

There are very few examples of CWs stepping up to heavy and dominating. Especially when the top heavies have a significant size, power and reach advantages.

Usyk can replicate a Parker style performance, and frustrate Joshua for 12 rounds, but expect him to lose comfortably on points. I'd much prefer to watch him against Bellew, which I think would be much more 50-50 than some would be prepared to consider.

Wear & tear and age matters. The old guard is better. The new guard is winning close fights against the old guard.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑24 Jul 2018, 02:56 Obviously there's some polar opposite fundamentalist views about the current state of the CW division, as there are for the HW division. It probably suggests it's 'okay without being overly terrible or overly great.

There are very few examples of CWs stepping up to heavy and dominating. Especially when the top heavies have a significant size, power and reach advantages.

Usyk can replicate a Parker style performance, and frustrate Joshua for 12 rounds, but expect him to lose comfortably on points. I'd much prefer to watch him against Bellew, which I think would be much more 50-50 than some would be prepared to consider.

how would you see usyk vs bellew going and why? maybe if you explain ppl will reconsider. thats the thing ive noticed, the few ppl who pick bellew or say hes got a great shot dont actually say why. do you think bellew wouldve won the wbss?

50-50 seems very generous to bellew imo. hed be facing an excellent p4p level boxer whose naturally bigger and 5 years younger. olympic gold and undisputed champ in all the other guys backyard, accomplishing more then bellew has as am and as pro.. fresh (way fresher then haye) and with a great engine

jamamb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2018, 05:40

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑24 Jul 2018, 02:56 Obviously there's some polar opposite fundamentalist views about the current state of the CW division, as there are for the HW division. It probably suggests it's 'okay without being overly terrible or overly great.

There are very few examples of CWs stepping up to heavy and dominating. Especially when the top heavies have a significant size, power and reach advantages.

Usyk can replicate a Parker style performance, and frustrate Joshua for 12 rounds, but expect him to lose comfortably on points. I'd much prefer to watch him against Bellew, which I think would be much more 50-50 than some would be prepared to consider.

how would you see usyk vs bellew going and why? maybe if you explain ppl will reconsider. thats the thing ive noticed, the few ppl who pick bellew or say hes got a great shot dont actually say why. do you think bellew wouldve won the wbss?

50-50 seems very generous to bellew imo. hed be facing an excellent p4p level boxer whose naturally bigger and 5 years younger. olympic gold and undisputed champ in all the other guys backyard, accomplishing more then bellew has as am and as pro.. fresh (way fresher then haye) and with a great engine

I can't disagree with any of the points you've made. And I completely agree that on paper Usyk wins 99% of the time. That being said, I've bet against Bellew almost every time he's stepped in the ring in the last few years, and just been proved wrong each and every time.

I would likely bet against Bellew again if he was to step in the ring with Usyk, but the outcome is less than clear.

Bellew is a crude and unbalanced fighter but has the absolute heart of a lion. He has a solid chin, under appreciated power, and has just about enough technique to keep out of trouble.

I 100% make Usyk the favourite, but I'm just not stupid enough to rule Bellew out.

I agree with this - I think Usyk gets a ud but by only 2-3 rds and Bellew makes Usyk look a lot less p4p than some currently make him.

I'm honestly a bit flummoxed that people think Bellew has a chance against Usyk. Bellew is definitely relevant in the division unlike the joke he was thought of before beating Makabu. Guy has Makabu, Masternak, and Haye on his resume. It's definitely one that will give Usyk a pretty hefty boost, especially since people think Bellew has a chance.

Still, I don't think anyone would care if Usyk moves on into the HW division.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑26 Jul 2018, 23:26 I'm honestly a bit flummoxed that people think Bellew has a chance against Usyk. Bellew is definitely relevant in the division unlike the joke he was thought of before beating Makabu. Guy has Makabu, Masternak, and Haye on his resume. It's definitely one that will give Usyk a pretty hefty boost, especially since people think Bellew has a chance.

Still, I don't think anyone would care if Usyk moves on into the HW division.

I don't think it's a case of Bellew being an overwhelming favourite over Usyk, more so just not being ruled out completely. Clearly the Haye wins have given him some credibility at HW, and Usyk is yet to step up to the weight.

Bellew is very similar to Whyte, in the sense that he has a big heart, has probably over achieved based on the level of skill he possesses. But you can't take away from what they have done so far.

I make Usyk a 60:40 favourite, but it'll be by no means straight forward.

80-20 usyk for me, simply better and 5 years younger. prob naturally bit bigger too