BoxRec

...that time won't be too long though, due to appearence of Russian pro-boxers in the 90s, only after the fall of the USSR.

Recent popular evaluations of Kovalev's career made me to think about the magnitude of his position in boxing history. Obviously the highest position he will likely to make in the list of the boxers representing Russia. Thus I thought, how Russian all time list can look like. Here's my top 10 rating:

1-2. Kostya Tszyu - an undisputed light welterweight champion with good opposition. Truly a world-class level athlete.
1-2. Sergey Kovalev - also a world-class competitor, held 3 belts in the light heavyweights (what was enough for undisputed championship in Tszyu times), had good opposition. His career isn't over, but I believe, he has already done enough to be at least the 2nd.
3. Alexander Povetkin - wasn't World champion (yet?), but he's a very skillful competitor and his name was around the top of the heavyweights for very long time. He has a lot of good scalps for his era and can actually improve his legacy.
4. Yuri Arbachakov - was a skillful boxer with excellent fundamentals, had a long WBC run at flyweights, won some decent opposition. Btw, he was the first World champ in the pros representing Russia.
5. Murat Gassiev - he's probably still only at the dawn of his career, but he has already been a unified champion at the cruiserweights.
6. Denis Lebedev - a former unified champion at the cruiserweights. I put him below Gassiev not only because of his loss to him, but I also find Lebedev's resume against champions better only on paper, as Jones and Toney were shot.
7. Nikolay Valuev - was pretty good on paper. 2-time WBA champ, but was well-protected, didn't fought the best, arguably lost to Ruiz, Donald and past-past-past-prime Holyfield.
8. Oleg Maskaev - was WBC heavyweight champ, KOed Rahman twice, which was probably the only really big scalp, cause Maskaev was always losing main fights. He was actually pretty good, but his chin sucked.
9. Grigory Drozd - was a cruiserweight WBC champ dethroned long-time holder of that belt Krzysztof Wlodarczyk. He was pretty good, but didn't realised full potential due to injuries and to late appearence of good promotion.
10. Dmitry Pirog - was WBO champ at middleweights. His career was short and he had only 1 really big scalp - Jacobs. But he was really talented, the injury prevented him from realising full potential.

So, I'm not sure, who's #1 - Tszyu or Kovalev. Well, Kovalev still has chances to make some statements. And he's not the only. Russia is a young country for pro-boxing, some of its brightest fighters are still active. But for the moment I saw it just like I've written now.

Those names give me a headache.

Tszyu was definitely top level.

It's a pity he didn't get to show it against more well known opposition.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 18:02 3. Alexander Povetkin - wasn't World champion (yet?), but he's a very skillful competitor and his name was around the top of the heavyweights for very long time. He has a lot of good scalps for his era and can actually improve his legacy.

Povetkin was the WBA champion from 2011-2013.
He won the vacant title from Ruslan Chagaev and lost it to Wladimir Klitschko.

SteveO wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018, 13:43

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 18:02 3. Alexander Povetkin - wasn't World champion (yet?), but he's a very skillful competitor and his name was around the top of the heavyweights for very long time. He has a lot of good scalps for his era and can actually improve his legacy.

Povetkin was the WBA champion from 2011-2013.
He won the vacant title from Ruslan Chagaev and lost it to Wladimir Klitschko.

That was WBA Regular belt, not the real one.

Maskaev and Valuev in their 10 best ever boxers? They're both a lock for the 10 worst ever heavyweight champions.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 06:00 Maskaev and Valuev in their 10 best ever boxers? They're both a lock for the 10 worst ever heavyweight champions.

Maskaev wasn't that bad. He was decent, but he had no ability to take good punches. He knocked Rahman twice, that was a pretty valuable scalp.

Valuev sucked, he was lucky to have that size and be in that era, but he still was a 2-time champion. Not much of his countrymen had such achievements.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018, 14:20

SteveO wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018, 13:43

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 18:02 3. Alexander Povetkin - wasn't World champion (yet?), but he's a very skillful competitor and his name was around the top of the heavyweights for very long time. He has a lot of good scalps for his era and can actually improve his legacy.

Povetkin was the WBA champion from 2011-2013.
He won the vacant title from Ruslan Chagaev and lost it to Wladimir Klitschko.

That was WBA Regular belt, not the real one.

Unfortunately, Povetkin peaked at a time where the Klitschko's were on top and unbeatable. outside of those 2, Povetkin was definitely the best heavyweight.

At the start of 2013, this was arguably the top 10 HW's..

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. David Haye
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. Tomasz Adamek
6. Kubrat Pulev
7. Eddie Chambers
8. Tyson Fury
9. Robert Helenius
10. Steve Cunningham
-----------------------

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 18:02
5. Murat Gassiev - he's probably still only at the dawn of his career, but he has already been a unified champion at the cruiserweights.
6. Denis Lebedev - a former unified champion at the cruiserweights. I put him below Gassiev not only because of his loss to him, but I also find Lebedev's resume against champions better only on paper, as Jones and Toney were shot.

Lebedev has to be above Gassiev at the moment. Like you said, Gassiev is still only at the dawn of his career. He does have PLENTY of time to even become the Russian #1 P4P boxer of all-time.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 18:02
9. Grigory Drozd - was a cruiserweight WBC champ dethroned long-time holder of that belt Krzysztof Wlodarczyk. He was pretty good, but didn't realised full potential due to injuries and to late appearence of good promotion.

Unfortunately, could have been much higher on this list.

DrDuke wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 08:02

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 06:00 Maskaev and Valuev in their 10 best ever boxers? They're both a lock for the 10 worst ever heavyweight champions.

Maskaev wasn't that bad. He was decent, but he had no ability to take good punches. He knocked Rahman twice, that was a pretty valuable scalp.

Valuev sucked, he was lucky to have that size and be in that era, but he still was a 2-time champion. Not much of his countrymen had such achievements.

Maskaev had some solid skills, but was nearly 40 when he won the title. It's difficult to name a heavyweight champ you would confidently pick Maskaev to beat. Valuev was only a two-time champion because Chagaev failed a blood test and couldn't easily beat him again in a rematch. And he only won it the first time because of his association with Don King, who needed a more sellable heavyweight champ than John Ruiz. Right time right place circus freak with no talent.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 09:45 Unfortunately, Povetkin peaked at a time where the Klitschko's were on top and unbeatable. outside of those 2, Povetkin was definitely the best heavyweight.

Yeah, he's kinda unlucky with that. Furthermore he could have KTFO Wilder, when they were to face each other, but Povetkin got unlucky again, he became another victim of anti-Russia politics. He was justified, but the opportunity was gone. Now he has a much tougher opportunity.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 09:45 Lebedev has to be above Gassiev at the moment. Like you said, Gassiev is still only at the dawn of his career. He does have PLENTY of time to even become the Russian #1 P4P boxer of all-time.

Sure, Gassiev has a lot of potential even after his first defeat, but I still would say, that he has overlapped Lebedev. Maybe Lebedev has a bigger amount of decent scalps, but I'd say Gassiev has a tighter bunch of good fellas in his record, where fighters were generally closer to their best conditions. Plus Gassiev has a win over Lebedev. A close one, but fair, I'd say.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:47

DrDuke wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 08:02

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 06:00 Maskaev and Valuev in their 10 best ever boxers? They're both a lock for the 10 worst ever heavyweight champions.

Maskaev wasn't that bad. He was decent, but he had no ability to take good punches. He knocked Rahman twice, that was a pretty valuable scalp.

Valuev sucked, he was lucky to have that size and be in that era, but he still was a 2-time champion. Not much of his countrymen had such achievements.

Maskaev had some solid skills, but was nearly 40 when he won the title. It's difficult to name a heavyweight champ you would confidently pick Maskaev to beat. Valuev was only a two-time champion because Chagaev failed a blood test and couldn't easily beat him again in a rematch. And he only won it the first time because of his association with Don King, who needed a more sellable heavyweight champ than John Ruiz. Right time right place circus freak with no talent.

Well, Maskaev could probably handle Liakhovich, Brewster or Briggs. Around those times he wasn't the only candidate for being the worst champ ever, as you've said.

And I'm also not a fan of Valuev at all, but it is what it is: he managed to write his name down in the history. With some help from the outside, but he did it.

That really looks like a weak list. There must be somebody that no one is thinking of.

Arbachakov should be higher; you could even argue he should be #1. Certainly better than Povetkin.

Newsboy Brown was born in Russia, but moved to the United States and his boxing career was there. If you count him, then he would be right up at the top.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 15:50 That really looks like a weak list. There must be somebody that no one is thinking of.

But who can be instead of some mentioned names?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 15:50 Arbachakov should be higher; you could even argue he should be #1. Certainly better than Povetkin.

He is a one from the very top for sure, but I put Povetkin higher, because Povetkin despite not being a champion is remaining longer in the top of his division and through his career he has beaten more fighters, who had also been ranked high and had decent resumes.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 15:50 Newsboy Brown was born in Russia, but moved to the United States and his boxing career was there. If you count him, then he would be right up at the top.

He can't be counted, he was raised in the USA, he was a citizen only of it.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 15:50That really looks like a weak list. There must be somebody that no one is thinking of.

I think even after the end of the USSR many of their top amateurs chose not to go pro. Maybe that is partly why the list is weaker than you'd expect.

Plus in '91 you had the split up of the USSR so guys like Navarov and a bunch of other people like GGG are under their own countries.

Jirov, GGG, Abraham, Vic D, Wlad & Vitali etc.