BoxRec

Boxing has been a shady sport since its inception. The violence of it attracts the underworld, plus it is the easiest sport to fix. You don't need to bother about a whole team. You just need to fix it with one man. You can't make him win but you can easily make him lose. Refs and judges are employees so it's pretty easy to influence them. Likewise ring doctors. Gloves can be tampered with. Drugs - either performance enhancing or the reverse - can be snuck in water bottles and food. TV announcers can shill it up to make it seem realistic. Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

Yep. Many people believe that Boxing was outlawed in America for a long time due to the violence of the sport, but it was because of the shady characters that the sport has always attracted that it had such a negative reputation.

Boxing is shady ... politics is shady ... the legal profession is shady ... (blah, blah, blah) ...

Every human activity ... without exception ... attracts shady characters ... and it is not uncommon for the simpleminded to point that out in one specific human activity ... imagining that they are sharing some profound insight ... (they are not) ...

... and stating that "it's pretty easy to influence" refs, judges and even ring doctors may be the dumbest thing ever said by any person since the inception of verbal communication ... (though I don't want to overstate it) ...

Rules, regulations and laws governing human-behavior and specific human-activities ... designed to keep out shady characters and unethical behavior ... go back almost to the inception of every human activity ... though it is difficult in most cases to determine when, exactly, that inception was ...

In that regard, boxing is somewhat unique, in that we know ... to the very day ... when, exactly, modern boxing got its start ... when the first rules, designed to instill some order and justice into boxing, came into being ... and to minimize, as much as possible, the participation of shady characters and their shady behavior ...

Surely there is still much to be done. Unethical activities still find their way into boxing ... even as they do in all human activities ... and occasionally, in regards to a specific fight, they may be significant and worth noting ... but as a rule, unethical activities in boxing are so rare as to be irrelevant ... (with the possible exception of doping, which, of course, is a problem in EVERY sport ... and boxing, in that regard, is no different) ...

But that first set of rules, that remarkable breakthrough in philosophy, having been introduced at the height of the Age of Enlightenment ... was one of the great contributions to the Western Enlightenment ... and had implication that went far beyond boxing ... and well-outside the ring ...

They had to do with the very nature of human behavior ... and were essential in the advancement of civilization and the improvement of the human condition ... and even today, having been greatly altered and improved ... they still are ...

... (though that fact is clearly well-beyond the intellectual capabilities of the simpleminded) ...

Sequitorian wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 16:42 Boxing is shady ... politics is shady ... the legal profession is shady ... and so on ...

Every human activity ... without exception ... attracts shady characters ... and it is not uncommon for the simpleminded to point that out in one specific human activity ... imagining that they are sharing some profound insight ... (they are not) ...

... and stating that "it's pretty easy to influence" refs, judges and even ring doctors may be the dumbest thing ever said by any person since the inception of verbal communication ... (though I don't want to overstate it) ...

Rules, regulations and laws governing human-behavior and specific human-activities ... designed to keep out shady characters and unethical behavior ... go back almost to the inception of that activity ... though it is difficult in most cases to determine when, exactly, that inception was ...

In that regard, boxing is somewhat unique, in that we know ... to the very day ... when, exactly, modern boxing got its start ... when the first rules, designed to instill some order and justice into boxing, came into being ... and to minimize, as much as possible, the participation of shady characters and their shady behavior ...

Surely there is still much to be done. Unethical activities still find their way into boxing ... even as they do in all human activities ... and occasionally, in regards to a specific fight, they may be significant and worth noting ... but as a rule, unethical activities in boxing are so rare as to be irrelevant ... (with the possible exception of doping, which, of course, is a problem in EVERY sport ... and boxing, in that regard, is no different) ...

But that first set of rules, that remarkable breakthrough in philosophy, having been introduced at the height of the Age of Enlightenment ... was one of the great contributions of the Western Enlightenment ... and had implication that went far beyond boxing ... and well-outside the ring ...

They had to do with the very nature of human behavior ... and were essential in the advancement of civilization and the improvement of the human condition ... and even today, having been greatly altered and improved ... they still are ...

... (though that fact is clearly well-beyond the intellectual capabilities of the simpleminded) ...

... that's a start ... keep wondering ... ...

Seq. sounds like an attorney for the Nevada State boxing commission!




"Boxing is shady ... politics is shady ... the legal profession is shady ... "

Nice comparisons.




"But that first set of rules, that remarkable breakthrough in philosophy, having been introduced at the height of the Age of Enlightenment ... was one of the great contributions of the Western Enlightenment ... "

Oh please. You are becoming hysterical!

gilgamesh wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:30 Yep. Many people believe that Boxing was outlawed in America for a long time due to the violence of the sport, but it was because of the shady characters that the sport has always attracted that it had such a negative reputation.

Yep. Prize fighting brought in a bad element. Boxing itself, amateur boxing, was very popular.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

The Valero and Kobozev deaths are well-known but I'm curious about the Boytsov case. I know about the induced coma after his "accident" and know he had been receiving death threats before that. Did they ever come up with anything to link Boytsov's tragedy to the Russian mob like Kobozev's death was?

...

Best Coast wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 17:56

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

The Valero and Kobozev deaths are well-known but I'm curious about the Boytsov case. I know about the induced coma after his "accident" and know he had been receiving death threats before that. Did they ever come up with anything to link Boytsov's tragedy to the Russian mob like Kobozev's death was?

Kobozev's is well known. They put down Valero as a suicide. I don't believe it. Boytsov? I can't find any updated info. Mum's the word. It was said that witnesses saw him being beaten by a group of men. They put down he was simply drunk and fell off the subway platform. I don't believe it.

The mob gave up on the sport and slunk away in embarrassment when they realized with the advent of the WBC and the NBA/WBA that they could not compete in terms of corruption and malign influence on boxing.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Boxing has been a shady sport since its inception. The violence of it attracts the underworld, plus it is the easiest sport to fix. You don't need to bother about a whole team. You just need to fix it with one man. You can't make him win but you can easily make him lose. Refs and judges are employees so it's pretty easy to influence them. Likewise ring doctors. Gloves can be tampered with. Drugs - either performance enhancing or the reverse - can be snuck in water bottles and food. TV announcers can shill it up to make it seem realistic. Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

Good summing up. I guess where money's involved 'influences' will never be far behind.

The recent World Cup in Russia (and the Champions League before it) demonstrate how football is not far behind. The game is crying out for the introduction of acting awards for the high levels of thespian talent on display.

The priority for boxing has always been to make what happens between the ropes on fight night look legit. A knockout is probably the closest we can get to that because anything else can become a matter of interpretation.

Some genuinely seem to believe that GGG v Canelo was a draw, some thought Canelo edged it, and then there was Adalaide Byrd!???

Thomastearns wrote: ↑02 Sep 2018, 05:18

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Boxing has been a shady sport since its inception. The violence of it attracts the underworld, plus it is the easiest sport to fix. You don't need to bother about a whole team. You just need to fix it with one man. You can't make him win but you can easily make him lose. Refs and judges are employees so it's pretty easy to influence them. Likewise ring doctors. Gloves can be tampered with. Drugs - either performance enhancing or the reverse - can be snuck in water bottles and food. TV announcers can shill it up to make it seem realistic. Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

Good summing up. I guess where money's involved 'influences' will never be far behind.

The recent World Cup in Russia (and the Champions League before it) demonstrate how football is not far behind. The game is crying out for the introduction of acting awards for the high levels of thespian talent on display.

The priority for boxing has always been to make what happens between the ropes on fight night look legit. A knockout is probably the closest we can get to that because anything else can become a matter of interpretation.

Some genuinely seem to believe that GGG v Canelo was a draw, some thought Canelo edged it, and then there was Adalaide Byrd!???

Adelaide Byrd judged three fights at Sam's Hotel & Gambling Hall, Las Vegas, Nevada on August 3rd, one month ago. I think that one sentence sums up the state of the sport.

Well I think it's a good thing. We have laws to prevent discrimination against the disabled and impaired, so it would be a contravention of those laws if judging boxing contest were to be reserved only for those whose eyes are connected to their brain.

S'funny - you never see any one-legged footballers do you?

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑02 Sep 2018, 21:59

Thomastearns wrote: ↑02 Sep 2018, 05:18

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Boxing has been a shady sport since its inception. The violence of it attracts the underworld, plus it is the easiest sport to fix. You don't need to bother about a whole team. You just need to fix it with one man. You can't make him win but you can easily make him lose. Refs and judges are employees so it's pretty easy to influence them. Likewise ring doctors. Gloves can be tampered with. Drugs - either performance enhancing or the reverse - can be snuck in water bottles and food. TV announcers can shill it up to make it seem realistic. Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

Good summing up. I guess where money's involved 'influences' will never be far behind.

The recent World Cup in Russia (and the Champions League before it) demonstrate how football is not far behind. The game is crying out for the introduction of acting awards for the high levels of thespian talent on display.

The priority for boxing has always been to make what happens between the ropes on fight night look legit. A knockout is probably the closest we can get to that because anything else can become a matter of interpretation.

Some genuinely seem to believe that GGG v Canelo was a draw, some thought Canelo edged it, and then there was Adalaide Byrd!???

Adelaide Byrd judged three fights at Sam's Hotel & Gambling Hall, Las Vegas, Nevada on August 3rd, one month ago. I think that one sentence sums up the state of the sport.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑02 Sep 2018, 21:59

Thomastearns wrote: ↑02 Sep 2018, 05:18

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑01 Sep 2018, 14:19 Boxing has been a shady sport since its inception. The violence of it attracts the underworld, plus it is the easiest sport to fix. You don't need to bother about a whole team. You just need to fix it with one man. You can't make him win but you can easily make him lose. Refs and judges are employees so it's pretty easy to influence them. Likewise ring doctors. Gloves can be tampered with. Drugs - either performance enhancing or the reverse - can be snuck in water bottles and food. TV announcers can shill it up to make it seem realistic. Then there are all the peripheral arrangements, match making, drug testing, and even murder (like Edwin Valero and Sergei Kobozev and that Polish mob boss who hung out with Golota... and God knows what happened to Denis Boytsov because they're keeping it mum), all administered by boxing's shady characters.

Good summing up. I guess where money's involved 'influences' will never be far behind.

The recent World Cup in Russia (and the Champions League before it) demonstrate how football is not far behind. The game is crying out for the introduction of acting awards for the high levels of thespian talent on display.

The priority for boxing has always been to make what happens between the ropes on fight night look legit. A knockout is probably the closest we can get to that because anything else can become a matter of interpretation.

Some genuinely seem to believe that GGG v Canelo was a draw, some thought Canelo edged it, and then there was Adalaide Byrd!???

Adelaide Byrd judged three fights at Sam's Hotel & Gambling Hall, Las Vegas, Nevada on August 3rd, one month ago. I think that one sentence sums up the state of the sport.

Yes I think it does. And it's doesn't look good.

It's was telling how out of all the journalists present at the after fight conference it was only Michael Montero who was willing to ask Bob Bennett (NSAC) about her scoring. What does that tell us about all those 'brave' whistleblowing boxing journalists?

As for Bennett's convenient defence of her having a 'bad day at work', perhaps Montero could have pushed his luck and asked what it would have actually taken to get her fired. If any of us had posted a scorecard like that here we'd have been rightly lambasted. Unfortunately for her, her scorecard had far, far greater consequences.

For a profession experienced judge to do that?? Even Oscar was lost for words and could offer no rational explanation.

It's not difficult to come to the conclusion that he is not prepared to fire her, its just not an option. Perhaps she simply knows too much, and just isn't prepared to walk away without talking?

It was predicted by some here that she would be back on the judging circuit before too long, and that's exactly what's happened. A gross disrespect to the fighters whom she's judging.

Is it any wonder that with less than 2 weeks to go there's still a huge shadow over the rematch?

from the bareknuckle English era its been utterly corrupt and hoodlums of all sections have been drawn to it.

controversy has always surrounded it

off the top of my head Tom Cribb v Tom Molyneaux is one of the earliest examples of cheating (according to contemporary accounts)

... dumb-ass ...