BoxRec

If you could have any 5 fights from the history of Boxing on video/DVD what would they be and why?

Five that would be at the top of my list would be-

JOHN L SULLIVAN WKO75 JAKE KILRAIN. 1889. Just for historical value and interest.

HARRY GREB WPTS15 GENE TUNNEY 1922. Well who would not what some Greb in their collection?

RAY ROBINSON WPTS10 KID GAVILAN 1948. Would love to have some prime Sugar Ray on tape against another great fighter.

BENNIE BRISCOE D10 CARLOS MONZON 1967. Always been facinated by Bad Bennie and would love to see him in his prime battling another great fighter.

LEOTIS MARTIN WTKO9 THAD SPENCER 1968. Apparently an all time classic Heavyweight fight, but inpossinle to get a copy of,

Obviously as this is a 'mythical' tape there is no restriction on tape length.

If we can say that films were of good quality and in real time (no missing frames or messep up projection speed) it'd be the following:

Joe Jeannette-Sam Mcvey- The Paris 49 rounder. Who wouldn't want to see this fight??

Willis KO3 Fulton- See a prime Willis dismantle the most dangerous opponent of his career

Jess Williard WND 10 over Luther McCarthy-two giant White Hopes slug it out. Nice to see McCarthy against someone we can use as a measuring stick.

Jack Johnson KO2 Ed Martin-Maybe Johnson's best career performance

Tuney-Greb 1- No explanantion needed

Loughran W10 Walker-Two of the best boxers of the 1920-30s.

Some more modern ones:

Holmes-Roy Williams W10- Holmes's biggest pre-championship test.

Spencer-Martin- As KOjoe said, it was supposed to be one of the best HW fights of the 1960s.

Marciano-LaStarza 1- How close was it really???

Great topic KOJOE

In no order:

Peter Jackson D61 James J Corbett-To see really how good Jackson was.

Joe Gans WDQ42 Battling Nelson- Have to see the "Old Master, like to see him against another legend.

Any of the Langford-Wills series, whichever one was the closest and showcased their talents.

George Dixon D25 Young Griffo- Two all-time greats, gotta see it.

Any early Kid Chocolate fight- This guy was great and blew out his opponents, would love to see him in his youth.

Hard to narrow down to just 5, so many fights I would to see but will never have the opportunity.

These two make any list.

Greb v Walker
Ketchel v O`Brien

Robinson-LaMotta V. Though I desperately want to see II and III as well.

Taylor-Anaya I.

Some of the fights mentioned already exist on film:

Gans W DQ Nelson 42 rounds is on film almost complete

Walker W10 Loughran is on film as well all though its not complete

Greb W15 Tunney and Greb W15 Walker were both filmed but unfortunately no copies seem to have survived. They would be interesting but I think Id prefer to see Greb in 1919 during his prime against someone like Mike Gibbons, Jeff Smith, Bill Brennen, Joe Chip, Bartley Madden, Battling Levinsky, Soldier Bartfield, Leo Houck, or Chuck Wiggins. All of which would have been interesting viewing.

Fights I'd love to have film of are (excluding Greb):

Klaus W20 Dillon

Langford-McVey (any)

Ketchel KO11 Papke

Jeffries KO23 Corbett

Levine KO12 Walcott

Have to be Zale/Graziano 1 & 2.

Only ever seen the 3rd, and I take it no footage of the first two have turned up.........yet??

Any of Hagler's early defeats I'd like to see ( only seen the rematches ) Any Greb fights...

Wow, I had no idea Gans-Nelson was filmed. Thanks for the info Klompton.

Also, I was thinking about starting a topic here in the Boxers of the Past about known fights filmed and/or available in the olden days to make a list, at least from 1900-1930 so fans can know what fights they can possibly see. What do you guys think, is it a good idea or too time consuming? And if you like the idea, would you help me to compile it? Just want to get a heads up from you guys, who are very knowldgeable and I'd want to see what you think before I did anything.

My five picks would be:

1-Jeanette KO49 McVey
2-La Motta W10 Robinson 2
3-Zale KO6 Graziano
4-Graziano KO6 Zale
5-Greb W15 Walker

Top 5 sets are..
Jeffries vs Fitzsimmons 2
Jack Johnson vs Joe Choynski
Greb's fights with McTigue, Klaus, Jack Dillon, Mike Gibbons, Loughran
Mickey Walker vs Jack Britton and Lew Tendler
Willie "The Worm" Monroe vs Marvin Hagler 1

Others..

Ezzard Charles vs Archie Moore 1-3
Ezzard Charles vs Charley Burley 1-2
Ezzard Charles L10 Harold Johnson
Anything on Holman Williams
Billy Conn vs Tony Zale
Robinson vs LaMotta 1
Ike Williams vs Bob Montgomery
Carlos Ortiz vs Duilio Loi 1-3

Greb didnt "fight" Klaus. Their "fight" was an exhibition bout of three, two minute rounds.

Sherlock wrote:Wow, I had no idea Gans-Nelson was filmed. Thanks for the info Klompton.

Also, I was thinking about starting a topic here in the Boxers of the Past about known fights filmed and/or available in the olden days to make a list, at least from 1900-1930 so fans can know what fights they can possibly see. What do you guys think, is it a good idea or too time consuming? And if you like the idea, would you help me to compile it? Just want to get a heads up from you guys, who are very knowldgeable and I'd want to see what you think before I did anything.

I think it would be a very good idea. Quite a few people who use this site have collections/information and pulling this together into a listing would be of great interest.

I would be happy to assist

The entire fight of Gans-McGovern exists on film, its fairly common but if you look to buy it make sure you get the unedited version. The edited version which appeared on CSN and ESPN Classic and BigFights had the fight edited to look legit. The unedited version shows the fight was obviously a fake.

There is footage of Benitez as an amateur. The earliest pro footage Ive seen is of he and Larry Hafey which is from 1974 when Benitez was a young 16 years old.

Someone above mentioned Holman Williams, there is one brief clip of Williams fighting when he is older. Its very short.

klompton wrote:The earliest pro footage Ive seen is of he and Larry Hafey which is from 1974 when Benitez was a young 16 years old.

I have that fight, Benitez is a sight to behold, so young but so talented.

elmersalsa wrote:3. Any Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles or Jersey Joe Walcott of late 1930s or early 1940s:TU:

Forgot to add that three fights of Archie Moore exist from 1940: His KOs over Henneberry, and Sabatino, and his win over Ron Richards.

klompton wrote:The edited version which appeared on CSN and ESPN Classic and BigFights had the fight edited to look legit. The unedited version shows the fight was obviously a fake.

I don't quite understand what your saying here,do you mean to say that that fight was staged.I'm just curious as to what you meant for i can't figure it out,do you mean that the fight was a fake or the footage was fake.

I mean that Gans took a dive. The film is real and its a "real" fight but Gans threw the fight. It was so controversial that boxing was outlawed in Chicago for years to come as a result of the fight. The edited version makes it look like McGovern overwhelms Gans and KOs him for real. If you see the full, unedited two rounds you see that Gans first goes down from a punch that misses him and loops around the back of his head. He then procedes to stagger around the ring like a drunk and fall everytime McGovern hits him. Its silly and obviously a fake.

klompton wrote:I mean that Gans took a dive. The film is real and its a "real" fight but Gans threw the fight. It was so controversial that boxing was outlawed in Chicago for years to come as a result of the fight. The edited version makes it look like McGovern overwhelms Gans and KOs him for real. If you see the full, unedited two rounds you see that Gans first goes down from a punch that misses him and loops around the back of his head. He then procedes to stagger around the ring like a drunk and fall everytime McGovern hits him. Its silly and obviously a fake.

Oh sorry,i misunderstood you for i thought you were reffering to the Nelson/Gans fight as a fake.I didn't realize you were talking about the McGovern/Gans fight,my mistake.And where can i get a copy of the Nelson/Gans fight,i am greatly interested in getting my hands on this fight.But i was wondering does this fight come on tape or on film that needs a projector to play,any info would be appreciated.And one more question for you Klompton:are fights 1to5 between La Motta and Robinson available on film because i was arguing with someone who insisted that they have the films but i am certain that the only fight between these two that was ever filmed was their 6th and final meeting,am i correct or wrong on this.

klompton wrote:Greb didnt "fight" Klaus. Their "fight" was an exhibition bout of three, two minute rounds.

Thanks on that one.

On Gans, it is definitely well known that he took a dive in the McGovern fight. A lot of literature on that.

Here's one of many references: http://www.hotboxingnews.com/1909-1900.htm

Some of the earlier Robinson-Lamotta fights were probably filmed but anyone insisting they have them is either lying or mistaken. Non of the major film collectors have that footage including BigFights.

You can find Gans-Nelson on VHS, its just a matter of finding the right person who has it.

klompton wrote:You can find Gans-Nelson on VHS, its just a matter of finding the right person who has it.

Is there anyone you can suggest for me to look up for that fight,or better yet can i buy the fight from the same person you got it from.

Klompton,

Any idea where I might get the brief clip of Holman? There is a poster advertising Williams V Cerdan out there and it leads one to believe the fight was filmed! Does anyone have any thoughts, leads etc on this?

On the subject of the thread:

Anything on Holman Williams

Same for Eddie Booker

Burley V Archie Moore

Ketchel V O'Brien (when Philly Jack's head was supposed to be in the rosin tray at the end - I'm sure Steve can shed soem light on this 'story')

Greb beating Tunney.

5 is not a great deal when you get down to it. You could go on forever I suppose.

klompton wrote:Some of the earlier Robinson-Lamotta fights were probably filmed but anyone insisting they have them is either lying or mistaken. Non of the major film collectors have that footage including BigFights.
.

I heard through the grapevine that LaMotta once claimed that he had film of all of his first five fights with Robinson. I still dream that one day someone will root around in his attic and find them.

gensu3k1 wrote:

klompton wrote:Some of the earlier Robinson-Lamotta fights were probably filmed but anyone insisting they have them is either lying or mistaken. Non of the major film collectors have that footage including BigFights.
.

I heard through the grapevine that LaMotta once claimed that he had film of all of his first five fights with Robinson. I still dream that one day someone will root around in his attic and find them.

The question is what kind of film were they,i heard there is a certain kind that deteriorates drastically over time i believe it is called acetote or something like that.If he did in fact have them which he claimed in his autobiography my guess is that they have probably hopelessly deteriorated by now.If he does indeed have them and still in good condition he can make a fortune out of selling them but i honestly don't think they do exist,although i would be very happy to be proven wrong on this one.