BoxRec

Afternoon/Morning (wherever you are).

I am collating some information for a preview piece that's almost ready to go on Usyk vs Joshua, or should that fight not eventually happen (I can't envisage it, personally) Usyk moving up in general. Besides the obvious of recent times (Holyfield, Haye), what are some of the successful/failed transitions that spring to mind?

I'm thinking along the lines of Juan Carlos Gomez, Huck moving up recently, Bellew vs Haye, Briedis vs Charr - that sort of thing.

Glen Mcrory got blasted out by Lennox when he stepped up.

Mormeck stepped up and got crushed by a Klitchko (cant remember which one)

Also a few that did it in reverse, Orlin Norris, Herbie Hide and Mike Perez for starters

Dwight Muhammad Qawi lost his rematch with Holyfield for the undisputed cruiser title and then stepped up to fight George Foreman.

Alfred Cole was a decorated cruiserweight champ who moved up to heavy to fight a rejuvenated Tim Witherspoon in a big event at MSG, which he lost on points. He then lost to Michael Grant and became an opponent.

Vassiliy Jirov had an Usyk-like reputation and having lost his titles to Toney was overpowered by Joe Mesi and subsequently KOd by an elderly Michael Moorer.

ST Gordon, on a run of successful defences, moved up and beat Trevor Berbick. He then moved back down and immediately lost to Carlos DeLeon, who he had previously stopped! Could be an interesting parallel should Usyk choose to go back down after the Bellew fight.

Alfonzo Ratliff lost his WBC title to Bernard Benton and was then destroyed by Mike Tyson at heavy.

McCrory as mentioned lost to Jeff Lampkin through--he felt--weight draining and then lost to Lennox Lewis at heavy. McCrory had previously been a heavyweight journeyman though. Orlin Norris lost his IBF belt to Nate Miller through weight draining, moved up to heavy and lost to Henry Akinwande in an eliminator. He was old old however, and had previously been a real heavyweight contender, wins over McCall, Snipes, Page, Tucker, et al, NABF title etc.

Traditionally Cruisers lose their title and then jump up to heavy, where things get even worse for them. Most cruiserweight champs of the 80s and 90s have a heavyweight journeyman chapter tagged on to the end of their careers. Usyk though is in a similar position to Holyfield and Haye (and Cole), departing the cruisers intact and looking for bigger challenges (and paydays). Could be interesting.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 11:14 Dwight Muhammad Qawi lost his rematch with Holyfield for the undisputed cruiser title and then stepped up to fight George Foreman.

Alfred Cole was a decorated cruiserweight champ who moved up to heavy to fight a rejuvenated Tim Witherspoon in a big event at MSG, which he lost on points. He then lost to Michael Grant and became an opponent.

Vassiliy Jirov had an Usyk-like reputation and having lost his titles to Toney was overpowered by Joe Mesi and subsequently KOd by an elderly Michael Moorer.

ST Gordon, on a run of successful defences, moved up and beat Trevor Berbick. He then moved back down and immediately lost to Carlos DeLeon, who he had previously stopped! Could be an interesting parallel should Usyk choose to go back down after the Bellew fight.

Alfonzo Ratliff lost his WBC title to Bernard Benton and was then destroyed by Mike Tyson at heavy.

McCrory as mentioned lost to Jeff Lampkin through--he felt--weight draining and then lost to Lennox Lewis at heavy. McCrory had previously been a heavyweight journeyman though. Orlin Norris lost his IBF belt to Nate Miller through weight draining, moved up to heavy and lost to Henry Akinwande in an eliminator. He was old old however, and had previously been a real heavyweight contender, wins over McCall, Snipes, Page, Tucker, et al, NABF title etc.

Traditionally Cruisers lose their title and then jump up to heavy, where things get even worse for them. Most cruiserweight champs of the 80s and 90s have a heavyweight journeyman chapter tagged on to the end of their careers. Usyk though is in a similar position to Holyfield and Haye (and Cole), departing the cruisers intact and looking for bigger challenges (and paydays). Could be interesting.

One of the points I've made.

This is great, thanks, didn't think of Qawi to be honest.

adamek moved up and was top 10 for a while, but then got beaten pretty throughly in his title fight vs vitali

he had already moved up from lhw as well

Possibly a good time to ask the question as to what Herbie Hide would have done as a dedicated crusier and from the very get-go........rather than shifting down from HW and relatively late in the day in terms of age and ring time.

I can only think Herbie operated in an era where he was not completely dwarfed by everyone in the HW division and that his overall hand and foot speed remained very effective; and the lure of far bigger paydays was a factor as well.

I'd love to seen Hide do things in reverse...... a long, potentially very succesful career as a cruiser and then step-up to heavyweight. The fact that he could get back down to cruiser late-on suggested that he could have done this.

Then again, Herbie was always his own man and never one for taking advice and he grabbed himself a slice of the HW title before literally getting bounced out of the division by Vitali.

I think Orlin Norris and Al Cole would be too tough for a mental weakling like Herbie Hide. Anaclet Wamba he might knock out. There were however some truly awful WBO cruiserweight champs, so I guess that is the route Hide would take. It's pointless trying to gauge him--he fought two top class guys his whole career and one knocked him down repeatedly with glancing blows and the other KOd him with a jab.

Leon Spinks. Obviously, he started at heavy. After the title loss to Holmes, he dropped down to cruiser, won a NABF title on a questionable decision got knocked out by DeLeon and went into retirement. He came back at heavy, won a minor title, went down to cruiser again and got blown out by Qawi. He went back up to heavy where he stayed for the remainder of his career, with increasingly diminishing results.

I think Orlin Norris and Al Cole would be too tough for a mental weakling like Herbie Hide. Anaclet Wamba he might knock out. There were however some truly awful WBO cruiserweight champs, so I guess that is the route Hide would take. It's pointless trying to gauge him--he fought two top class guys his whole career and one knocked him down repeatedly with glancing blows and the other KOd him with a jab.

Fair point Tuan..........Hide was a guy who was either hugely up or down and also had a rep as a nasty gym bully.

But here's the thing......when his head was vaguely straight Hide was quick, aggressive and hit plenty hard and would have been a huge handful in the CW division if he'd started there.

The fella was not without talent and that's why he was tolerated for so long by promoters he drove half round the bend and his heavyweight career was very far from being a complete shambles

Chris Byrd also went the other way (actually further). From heavyweight down to light heavyweight after losing to Povetkin. Probably not wise at 38ish, was stopped by the unheralded Shaun George. Then had his last fight in Germany at Cruiserweight. He'd have made a very good 200lber.

Chris Byrd also went the other way (actually further). From heavyweight down to light heavyweight after losing to Povetkin. Probably not wise at 38ish, was stopped by the unheralded Shaun George. Then had his last fight in Germany at Cruiserweight. He'd have made a very good 200lber.

Byrd's a great shout.........I think that the bad economics of campaigning at cruiserweight (even if you were a title holder) has forced guys to fight up at heayweight or even shrink themselves back down to LH.

Bellew (for example) has done the whole LH, Cruiser and HW shifting in his career .......even though I would suggest that CW was where he's most comfortable (physically) and always at his most effective.

Bob Moha historically comes to mind, though in his time 175 was considered a joke division for people not good enough to be Middleweight or Heavyweight. Much like Cruiserweight would later be seen as when it came along.

He fought at Heavyweight often, though he was a better Middleweight. He fought Greb six times, and was always in the mix. He even fought an exhibition with Jack Johnson. He'd blow up in weight & go down in weight rapidly.

http://www.harrygreb.com/bobmoha.html

He claimed, for a time, both the 160 & 175 pound titles but famously said that he'd fight anyone from, "158 pounds to 230 pounds and up." Indeed, he had a helluva 10 round battle with 6'5" Heavyweight contender Joe Cox who had previously beaten Jess Willard & was outweighed by 70 pounds... and won!