LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 11:47
BoxRec
LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
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Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:09
by definition it was also on the line when Fury fought Seferi and Pianeta.
I wonder if the Wilder-Fury winner will be awarded the 'Ring' belt.
I wonder if the Wilder-Fury winner will be awarded the 'Ring' belt.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:14
It does make for an interesting question. I’m Fury’s absence, Joshua was awarded lineage. But now that he’s back, could we have a situation where TWO heavyweights have claim to being “ the man ?”
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:17
When was Joshua awarded lineage and by who?drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 15:14 It does make for an interesting question. I’m Fury’s absence, Joshua was awarded lineage. But now that he’s back, could we have a situation where TWO heavyweights have claim to being “ the man ?”
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:26
To my knowledge Joshua was never awarded lineage.
Had Fury not made a comeback surely Joshua would have had to fight Wilder for that honour.
Had Fury not made a comeback surely Joshua would have had to fight Wilder for that honour.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:27
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:30
lol what a great lineal title reign furys had too 
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:31
What if Lewis decides on a comeback? Lineal returns to him?
Tunney, technically still holds the accolade. It died with him.
Tunney, technically still holds the accolade. It died with him.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:34
It did - but then a new title lineage was created.lillywhite14 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 15:31 Tunney, technically still holds the accolade. It died with him.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:37
Ring have already said they see Joshua vs. Wilder as #1 vs. #2.. thats where their belt will be contested. However os Fury beats Wilder then I guess Joshua vs. Fury will be for Ring belt.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 15:44
That makes sense.Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑01 Oct 2018, 15:37 Ring have already said they see Joshua vs. Wilder as #1 vs. #2.. thats where their belt will be contested. However os Fury beats Wilder then I guess Joshua vs. Fury will be for Ring belt.
I only wondered because Fury was the 'Ring' champion until they stripped him due to inactivity.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 01 Oct 2018, 23:12
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 01:34
In Fury's absence, if Joshua had beaten Wilder, or perhaps even Povetkin, it could be argued that Joshua started a new lineage. Since Fury returned before that happened, it is reasonable to conclude that Fury's lineage is resumed.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 02:47
Fury is a paper lineal champion
Who did Wlad beat to be the man?
The last true lineal champion was Lennox lewis
Who did Wlad beat to be the man?
The last true lineal champion was Lennox lewis
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 07:16
20th June 2009: #1 heavyweight Wlad beat #3 heavyweight Ruslan Chagaev (Vitali was #2 heavyweight but the two brothers vowed never to fight each other professionally).
20th October 2013: Wlad beat #2 heavyweight Povetkin and cemented the lineage.
You don't have to like it but it is what it is.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 07:22
Yeh. You cant argue that Wlad didn’t go through every HW available (apart from Vitali).. Chagaev at the time was a class HW, so was Povetkin at the time they fight.SteveO wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 07:1620th June 2009: #1 heavyweight Wlad beat #3 heavyweight Ruslan Chagaev (Vitali was #2 heavyweight but the two brothers vowed never to fight each other professionally).
20th October 2013: Wlad beat #2 heavyweight Povetkin and cemented the lineage.
You don't have to like it but it is what it is.
Lineal is a tricky subject. Apart from The Ring, the other two Orgs (CBZ and TBRB) also like to decide a single champion in a division. Neither claim to be record keepers of the ‘Lineal belt’.. but with TBRB, it isn’t 1 guy sat around a table. It’s over 50 from around the world deciding these rankings.
It’s not perfect, but there’s some legitimacy behind it.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 09:33
Once a lineal champion retires, I was under the impression the lineal status is vacant until a new undisputed champion is crowned. So, what Fury says makes perfect sense. By definition, he is the lineal champion. During his absence, no boxer became undisputed.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 09:56
Tyson Fury is the lineal champion of the world. He is widely-regarded as being the holder of that fictitious title, which he gained after defeating Wladimir Klitschko.
The vast majority of the media as well as fight fans consider Fury as the lineal champion, so that’s the title that he holds. People may debate this, based on minutiae infractions on rules that haven’t been universally agreed, but it’s a pointless exercise.
The universal opinion is all that counts, because he is "the man that beat the man" and hasn't lost this mythical "title" inside the ring.
That being said, the lineal champion clearly isn’t the best title to hold, as it doesn’t mean that the person that owns it is actually the best fighter in their respective division (as per Michael Spinks’ and Shannon Brigg’s title reigns).
The promoters may try to hype up a bout by claiming that their man is the "lineal" champ, but it’s merely a marketing gimmick that is used to sell fights to the mainstream masses and nothing more.
The vast majority of the media as well as fight fans consider Fury as the lineal champion, so that’s the title that he holds. People may debate this, based on minutiae infractions on rules that haven’t been universally agreed, but it’s a pointless exercise.
The universal opinion is all that counts, because he is "the man that beat the man" and hasn't lost this mythical "title" inside the ring.
That being said, the lineal champion clearly isn’t the best title to hold, as it doesn’t mean that the person that owns it is actually the best fighter in their respective division (as per Michael Spinks’ and Shannon Brigg’s title reigns).
The promoters may try to hype up a bout by claiming that their man is the "lineal" champ, but it’s merely a marketing gimmick that is used to sell fights to the mainstream masses and nothing more.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 12:03
Well, there was a time when the top 4 heavyweights were considered to be Wlad, Sam Peter, Sultan Ibragimov, and Chagaev. Wlad beat Sam Peter (twice), Sultan Ibragimov, and Chagaev. Later, the top heavyweights were considered to be Wlad, Vitali, Haye, Povetkin, and Pulev. Wlad beat Haye, Povetkin, and Pulev. There was a time when Eddie Chambers was top 5 (along with Wlad, Vitali, Povetkin, and Chagaev). Wlad beat Chambers as well.
I could you could say that, aside from fight Vitali, Wlad pretty much cleaned-out the division more than twice, and beat like 7 beltholders along the way (3 WBA champions, 2 WBO champions, 1 IBF champion, 1 IBO champion).
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 12:36
Lackeos wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 12:03Well, there was a time when the top 4 heavyweights were considered to be Wlad, Sam Peter, Sultan Ibragimov, and Chagaev. Wlad beat Sam Peter (twice), Sultan Ibragimov, and Chagaev. Later, the top heavyweights were considered to be Wlad, Vitali, Haye, Povetkin, and Pulev. Wlad beat Haye, Povetkin, and Pulev. There was a time when Eddie Chambers was top 5 (along with Wlad, Vitali, Povetkin, and Chagaev). Wlad beat Chambers as well.
I could you could say that, aside from fight Vitali, Wlad pretty much cleaned-out the division more than twice, and beat like 7 beltholders along the way (3 WBA champions, 2 WBO champions, 1 IBF champion, 1 IBO champion).
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 13:39
Tyson is using the Lineal status to sell the fight.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 14:09
no division stands still for one man for just one fight
fury was at the top but then fall hard and became a slob. by fight time hell have faced no top 70 opponent in over 3 years. the whole lineal stuff is so overrated. it basically allows a guy to win one fight and then do f@ck all of worth
aj not only beat wlad, but in the time fury was gone he also beat parker, povetkin, whyte, takam, breazeale, etc, for clearly the strongest resume at the moment. the 'man' at hw cant be decided without his involvment. for all the talk of lineal, the weak link in all this is actually fury...wilder and aj have done way more in the years that fury was getting obese and doing drugs. theyd both ko him btw.
fury was at the top but then fall hard and became a slob. by fight time hell have faced no top 70 opponent in over 3 years. the whole lineal stuff is so overrated. it basically allows a guy to win one fight and then do f@ck all of worth
aj not only beat wlad, but in the time fury was gone he also beat parker, povetkin, whyte, takam, breazeale, etc, for clearly the strongest resume at the moment. the 'man' at hw cant be decided without his involvment. for all the talk of lineal, the weak link in all this is actually fury...wilder and aj have done way more in the years that fury was getting obese and doing drugs. theyd both ko him btw.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 14:22
I don’t actually think the mainstream masses care at all about the mythical ‘lineal’ championship - it’s only really hardcore fans who even know what it is. Casuals only care about belts they can see.Enlightened-One wrote: ↑02 Oct 2018, 09:56 Tyson Fury is the lineal champion of the world. He is widely-regarded as being the holder of that fictitious title, which he gained after defeating Wladimir Klitschko.
The vast majority of the media as well as fight fans consider Fury as the lineal champion, so that’s the title that he holds. People may debate this, based on minutiae infractions on rules that haven’t been universally agreed, but it’s a pointless exercise.
The universal opinion is all that counts, because he is "the man that beat the man" and hasn't lost this mythical "title" inside the ring.
That being said, the lineal champion clearly isn’t the best title to hold, as it doesn’t mean that the person that owns it is actually the best fighter in their respective division (as per Michael Spinks’ and Shannon Brigg’s title reigns).
The promoters may try to hype up a bout by claiming that their man is the "lineal" champ, but it’s merely a marketing gimmick that is used to sell fights to the mainstream masses and nothing more.
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 15:14
All these justifications that Wlad started a new line of lineage as he cleared out the division all pretty much contain 2 things
1. Except Vitali
2. Except wilder
Wlad was never undisputed at the division, he’s number 1 or was rather, for sure, but hence my reasoning that fury was a paper lineal champ, as Wlad was a true one either
Lennox Lewis was the last true lineal champion with history
1. Except Vitali
2. Except wilder
Wlad was never undisputed at the division, he’s number 1 or was rather, for sure, but hence my reasoning that fury was a paper lineal champ, as Wlad was a true one either
Lennox Lewis was the last true lineal champion with history
Re: LINEAL TITLE IS ON THE LINE !
Posted: 02 Oct 2018, 17:34
wlad was definetly undisputed. as mentioned he cleaned the division out about 3 times. won the ring title v ibragimov. then beat chagaev.
vitali retired in 2012. in 2013 vlad beat povetkin who was no. 2. wilder didnt even win the wbc belt until 2015.
now fury can claim the 'lineal title' but we know it doesnt mean much now. since he went inactive, aj rose to being the no.1.
interestingly povetkin until his failed test was ranked above wilder by the ring.
in any event, at this point, only the winner of fury/wilder v aj could truly be the undisputed champ.
vitali retired in 2012. in 2013 vlad beat povetkin who was no. 2. wilder didnt even win the wbc belt until 2015.
now fury can claim the 'lineal title' but we know it doesnt mean much now. since he went inactive, aj rose to being the no.1.
interestingly povetkin until his failed test was ranked above wilder by the ring.
in any event, at this point, only the winner of fury/wilder v aj could truly be the undisputed champ.