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1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 07:36
by cfang
So we know all about the black heavys from the turn of the century up to the 20s, Jeanette, Langford, McVey etc. Then there's Harry wills. Then in the 40s we had the murderers row who were mostly middles and light heavys. None of these guys got a title shot due to their colour. Then in the late 50s that changed and black heavys took over.
What I'd like views on is the more missing or forgotten black fighters in between those two eras. Some guys like George godrey, Larry gains, Obie walker, bearcat Wright. Also welters like the cocoa kid etc. So between wills and Louis were the top black heavys better than their white counter parts of the time? Would they have dominated if given the chance? How would the division have looked if these got their shots? Did they have to throw a lot of fights so their records are misleading?
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 13:12
by Caractacus
also what about some of the "non-black" Heavyweights from that time period.
Who were some of the best that rarely get mentioned anymore in recent years because they didn't fight for a title or have the right manager with the connections ?
Because I remember reading Joe Louis's 1978 autobiography some years ago
and a few times he would mention a couple of boxers that there were plans for him to fight and even defend
the title against but and I had never heard of them before (at that time).
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 13:48
by Caractacus
Jimmy Adamick was one of them mentioned fighting Joe Louis around the time just before Louis fought Tommy Farr.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 15:41
by Ambling Alp II
cfang wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018, 07:36
So we know all about the black heavys from the turn of the century up to the 20s, Jeanette, Langford, McVey etc. Then there's Harry wills. Then in the 40s we had the murderers row who were mostly middles and light heavys. None of these guys got a title shot due to their colour. Then in the late 50s that changed and black heavys took over.
What I'd like views on is the more missing or forgotten black fighters in between those two eras. Some guys like George godrey, Larry gains, Obie walker, bearcat Wright. Also welters like the cocoa kid etc. So between wills and Louis were the top black heavys better than their white counter parts of the time? Would they have dominated if given the chance? How would the division have looked if these got their shots? Did they have to throw a lot of fights so their records are misleading?
In general, I don't think the top black heavyweights were better than the top white heavyweights in those years. Head to head, the results don't really favor them. Godfrey was the only who was really a top contender. I guess you argue that he was the best heavyweight in the world at one time; he was right up there for awhile. He certainly never "dominated" though.
In general a white fighter would get the benefit of the doubt as far as opportunities go. However,if a black fighter was clearly the best fighter in the world at his weight for a long time, he usually got a title shot.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 17:03
by Caractacus
cfang wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018, 07:36
So we know all about the black heavys from the turn of the century up to the 20s, Jeanette, Langford, McVey etc. Then there's Harry wills. Then in the 40s we had the murderers row who were mostly middles and light heavys. None of these guys got a title shot due to their colour. Then in the late 50s that changed and black heavys took over.
What I'd like views on is the more missing or forgotten black fighters in between those two eras. Some guys like George godrey, Larry gains, Obie walker, bearcat Wright. Also welters like the cocoa kid etc. So between wills and Louis were the top black heavys better than their white counter parts of the time? Would they have dominated if given the chance? How would the division have looked if these got their shots? Did they have to throw a lot of fights so their records are misleading?
I think the best way to probably ascertain this is to check those fighters mentioned records and see who may have won or drew with any of them or even have knocked them down a couple times at least in a loosing effort in a fight.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 19 Oct 2018, 17:49
by cfang
Gains beat carnera easy enough. Then again he managed to lose to jack Peterson and Len Harvey. Harvey was a tremendous fighter but a lt heavy.
Obie walker was never stopped in over 100 fights. Looks to me that he didn't get many opportunities, although he somehow lost to jack London.
Godfrey lost on a dq to carnera but it's said that fight was well dodgy.
The records say that as alp says, nobody dominated which is true. Can't help thinking though that a bit like the murderers row, these guys were left to face themselves and not given a fair shot. I guess we'll never know but I'd think that Godfrey and gains would have won the title at some stage if given a shot.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 22 Oct 2018, 15:57
by Ambling Alp II
I don't think the black heavyweights during this time were as good as the "Murderer's Row" guys. Certainly none were at the level of Burley, Williams, or Marshall.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 22 Oct 2018, 16:27
by cfang
Aye maybe. Some at lower weights did get their shots in the 30s too. Gorrila Jones and john Henry Lewis for example.
It's been interesting looking up the fighters of that era though. There's a lot of old British pathe news clips of some of the big fights and they are far better quality than the American film of fights of the time. Len Harvey Vs gains in particular.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 23 Oct 2018, 02:32
by Cojimar 1946
Yup, they were not really comparable to the murderers row guys. Williams, Burley could probably have been champions if given a shot whereas none of the black heavyweights of that era even managed to establish superiority over the best white contenders let alone the champions.
Re: 1925-35 the missing heavys
Posted: 23 Oct 2018, 14:13
by Caractacus
Larry Gains had written his autobiography when he was 75 yers old and published in 1976 THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM.
Anyone here read it and if so is it any good ?