BoxRec

Who would win?

Foreman by KO.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:37 Foreman by KO.

Yes sir. I would assume somewhere between rounds 7-10

Ortiz is solid technically and has power, but he hasn't shown anything special by the current moment. And most likely he won't do it. Foreman would have bombed him early, Ortiz wouldn't have been able to withstand that for long.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:43

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:37 Foreman by KO.

Yes sir. I would assume somewhere between rounds 7-10

The old young Foreman or the young old Foreman?

The GF from the 1970s, KO 1 to KO 3. The take my time 1980s-90s, GF KO 7 or so.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:46

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:43

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:37 Foreman by KO.

Yes sir. I would assume somewhere between rounds 7-10

The old young Foreman or the young old Foreman?

The GF from the 1970s, KO 1 to KO 3. The take my time 1980s-90s, GF KO 7 or so.

No i actually think Ortiz has a good chin and would of boxed nicely against a prime Foreman until he was caught
later in the fight.
Against an old Foreman I would pick Ortiz by decision.

Luis, like the Cuban heavies before him, when met with resistance was shown to be lacking both in fitness and the intangibles. I can't see such a meek heart, in such an old body, making it past 5 versus Foreman. In fact Foreman in Big Fight Mood crushes him in 2.

A fairer fight may be Luis versus the old Foreman, but the old fat guy who walked over Briggs has too much of everything for him.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:55

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:46

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:43
Yes sir. I would assume somewhere between rounds 7-10

The old young Foreman or the young old Foreman?

The GF from the 1970s, KO 1 to KO 3. The take my time 1980s-90s, GF KO 7 or so.

No i actually think Ortiz has a good chin and would of boxed nicely against a prime Foreman until he was caught
later in the fight.
Against an old Foreman I would pick Ortiz by decision.

After about the time of GF vs Holydeal, GF naturally regressed. The Foreman in his last fight or so, I could see an Ortiz decision. The GF who beat guys like Bert Cooper and Guido Trane, I think GF about KO 7. But hey, I picked some Foreman fights wrong, so who knows?

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:02

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:55

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:46

The old young Foreman or the young old Foreman?

The GF from the 1970s, KO 1 to KO 3. The take my time 1980s-90s, GF KO 7 or so.

No i actually think Ortiz has a good chin and would of boxed nicely against a prime Foreman until he was caught
later in the fight.
Against an old Foreman I would pick Ortiz by decision.

After about the time of GF vs Holydeal, GF naturally regressed. The Foreman in his last fight or so, I could see an Ortiz decision. The GF who beat guys like Bert Cooper and Guido Trane, I think GF about KO 7. But hey, I picked some Foreman fights wrong, so who knows?

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:15

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:02

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 10:55
No i actually think Ortiz has a good chin and would of boxed nicely against a prime Foreman until he was caught
later in the fight.
Against an old Foreman I would pick Ortiz by decision.

After about the time of GF vs Holydeal, GF naturally regressed. The Foreman in his last fight or so, I could see an Ortiz decision. The GF who beat guys like Bert Cooper and Guido Trane, I think GF about KO 7. But hey, I picked some Foreman fights wrong, so who knows?

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

True, I thought GF would KO Morrison. Didn't think he'd fight a Crawford Grimsley tooth and nail.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:19

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:15

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:02

After about the time of GF vs Holydeal, GF naturally regressed. The Foreman in his last fight or so, I could see an Ortiz decision. The GF who beat guys like Bert Cooper and Guido Trane, I think GF about KO 7. But hey, I picked some Foreman fights wrong, so who knows?

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

True, I thought GF would KO Morrison. Didn't think he'd fight a Crawford Grimsley tooth and nail.

Yeah hindsight is always 20/20
Wish I could go back in time and place some bets on all the ones I guessed wrong.
I'd be rich

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:26

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:19

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:15

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

True, I thought GF would KO Morrison. Didn't think he'd fight a Crawford Grimsley tooth and nail.

Yeah hindsight is always 20/20
Wish I could go back in time and place some bets on all the ones I guessed wrong.
I'd be rich

I'll tell anyone who will listen, if I had a bookie or was in Vegas, I would have put a bit on Buster Douglas vs Tyson. I thought the odds called for it.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:19

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:15

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:02

After about the time of GF vs Holydeal, GF naturally regressed. The Foreman in his last fight or so, I could see an Ortiz decision. The GF who beat guys like Bert Cooper and Guido Trane, I think GF about KO 7. But hey, I picked some Foreman fights wrong, so who knows?

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

True, I thought GF would KO Morrison. Didn't think he'd fight a Crawford Grimsley tooth and nail.

You think he fought Crawford Grimsley "tooth and nail"? Have you ever seen the fight? Grimsley walked away all night and then had to spend the last few rounds holding on for dear life. Perhaps your confusing the fight with the Lou Savarese one.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 12:50

Tony1244 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:19

tiny_acres wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 11:15

It's all speculation. Hell how can we ever be sure of these mythical match ups when we all can't even predict current fights correctly

True, I thought GF would KO Morrison. Didn't think he'd fight a Crawford Grimsley tooth and nail.

You think he fought Crawford Grimsley "tooth and nail"? Have you ever seen the fight? Grimsley walked away all night and then had to spend the last few rounds holding on for dear life. Perhaps your confusing the fight with the Lou Savarese one.

I haven't seen it in a long time. I didn't remember it as a dominating performance. He didn't look great against Schultz or Stewart. Perhaps I am thinking more of the Schultz fight. I thought he beat Savarese and deserved the nod against Briggs.
Fair enough, the Crawford fight is a bit hazy to me.

Prime Foreman would win early and it would be brutal. Don't know why we always spend so much time talking about old Foreman. A prime Foreman would win be the favorite against almost any heavyweight ever. Certainly somebody like Luis Ortiz is no match for him.

Foreman seems a bit undersized for today's division. He was almost always the bigger stronger man in the ring back in the 70s and I'm not confident he would adjust well to suddenly being the smaller weaker man. That said he might be able to get past Ortiz but it could be a difficult matchup.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 21:15 Foreman seems a bit undersized for today's division. He was almost always the bigger stronger man in the ring back in the 70s and I'm not confident he would adjust well to suddenly being the smaller weaker man. That said he might be able to get past Ortiz but it could be a difficult matchup.

Good points

Luis Ortiz just got KOd by a 214 lb Wilder, but he would be 'too strong' for George Foreman?

As always, Cojimar's thought process is as poor as Ortiz's fatty physique.

Foreman was old and fat and had a ten year lay off but still managed to win the championship. Big gulf in class between these two. Prime foreman from the early 70s would ko Ortiz in a few rounds.

It's interesting though about wilder. He's just over 15 stone but has a 98% ko ratio in this era of supersized heavys. Makes me think that guys like Liston, foreman etc would have had little trouble with bigger and slower heavys from this era.

ive seen wilder get brought up a few times here on that point, as if 6'7 /83 inch reach/average weight of 225-230 isnt big historically, um okay. pretty sure he said he was sick for ortiz and thats the only reason he was so light.

anyway, obviously prime george should beat up ortiz

He might beat Ortiz but Foreman sized heavies have not done well in the division lately. That coupled with Foremans lack of defense make me suspect he would lose to the divisions elite like Joshua.

Lewis got knocked out by Rahman and McCall but in your book its silly to think Joshua could beat him. I think your the one with the poor logic.

For the record Wilder might well beat Foreman. He would be the biggest puncher George ever faced. If Lyle could nearly take Foreman out you wonder what Wilder would do.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2018, 21:15 Foreman seems a bit undersized for today's division. He was almost always the bigger stronger man in the ring back in the 70s and I'm not confident he would adjust well to suddenly being the smaller weaker man. That said he might be able to get past Ortiz but it could be a difficult matchup.

No. He usually weighed more than Wilder who has been beating one bigger after another. Plus Foreman was much, much better than Ortiz. How good you are actually matters, strange as that may sound to you.

Favoring Foreman is reasonable but I think Ortiz would be a more difficult opponent than many think. I also don't see the Wilder loss as such a huge negative. Wilder may go on to establish himself in the coming years.