BoxRec

Calzaghe is a topic of controversy, and I thought I'd provide a balanced perspective.

1. Calzaghe is overprotected. Jiminez, Mkertchen, Saleem, et al. are awful opponents. If he were an American fighter no one would let him get away with this stuff. BUT he has been unlucky. His major competition for years was Ottke, and he couldn't have gotten a fair fight against him.

2. He has ducked major opposition. He should have fought Eastman, Vanderpool, Lucas, and Johnson. BUT US fighters do use him as leverage in negotiations with no intention of actually fighting him: William Joppy, Bernard Hopkins, Scott Pemberton come to mind.

3. No more talk about this Robin Reid fight. If allegedly were smart, he'd buy US TV time and show Calzaghe/Reid on ESPN. The only "controversy" is how that one judge scored it for Reid or why the ref didn't DQ Reid for low blows, hitting on the break, and clutching. The only fighter Reid reminded me of was Johnny Ruiz.

Calzaghe is an overprotected hypejob.

jjfc wrote:Calzaghe is a topic of controversy, and I thought I'd provide a balanced perspective.

1. Calzaghe is overprotected. Jiminez, Mkertchen, Saleem, et al. are awful opponents. If he were an American fighter no one would let him get away with this stuff. BUT he has been unlucky. His major competition for years was Ottke, and he couldn't have gotten a fair fight against him.

2. He has ducked major opposition. He should have fought Eastman, Vanderpool, Lucas, and Johnson. BUT US fighters do use him as leverage in negotiations with no intention of actually fighting him: William Joppy, Bernard Hopkins, Scott Pemberton come to mind.

3. No more talk about this Robin Reid fight. If allegedly were smart, he'd buy US TV time and show Calzaghe/Reid on ESPN. The only "controversy" is how that one judge scored it for Reid or why the ref didn't DQ Reid for low blows, hitting on the break, and clutching. The only fighter Reid reminded me of was Johnny Ruiz.

Warren is smart

Calzaghe has got undoubted ability, but trying to get him to fight challenging opponents is like watching that Coyote try and catch Roadrunner

What was controversial about Reid-Calzaghe? I thought Reid won the fight and he was deducted a point for a low blow Anyway who wants to see Reid-Calzaghe II judging by Reid's last offering against Magee :( Not me.

Chambers wrote:Calzaghe has got undoubted ability, but trying to get him to fight challenging opponents is like watching that Coyote try and catch Roadrunner

Beep Beep!

Eubank was severely weight drained and a late sub, and was past it anyway. It was still a good performance from Joe, but I'd like to have seen him do that against an in form and better prepared Eubank. I think Joe's style would have given him problems, but it would have been a much much tougher fight.

Collins was also having problems at that time too, wasn't he getting knocked out in the gym? Collins was at the end of a long hard career,

Nobody is saying Calzaghe isn't good, but where's the defining fights?

There's too many fights which haven't happened, and there are plenty of decent challengers out there for Calzaghe to take on. How about Danny Green, Mundine, Haussler, Beyer, Sanavia, Kessler, Lacy, Magee, Grant, Vanderpool, Tsypko, Markussen? Are we to believe that not ONE of these fights can be made, and that Salem is the best available competition?

Any of these names would be better than Salem, there is no way Calzaghe can claim to have 'cleaned out the division' because he hasn't. Calzaghe wants big fights, but aside from Glen Johnson, is anyone interested in fighting him? It remains to be seen.

Calzaghe is a frustration, because he's the guy all of us would like to have proven himself to be the very best in the division, he seemed to be the top man at one time, but we've been waiting in vain for it to be proven beyond all doubt, and it looks like it isn't going to happen. How long has Joe got left?

Brewer wasn't a bum by any means, but again, not a defining fight. Same goes for Byron Mitchell.

rubberjohnny wrote:How do you know Eubank was weight drained? He has gone on record as saying he wasn't and I KNOW he wasn't. He didn't make excuses so why are you. Eubank had a month to prepare not two weeks as is reported. Collins avoided Calzaghe and Eubank went on standby Fact.

How do you know?

rubberjohnny wrote:How do you know Eubank was weight drained? He has gone on record as saying he wasn't and I KNOW he wasn't. He didn't make excuses so why are you. Eubank had a month to prepare not two weeks as is reported. Collins avoided Calzaghe and Eubank went on standby Fact.

A month isn't exactly a long time for a training camp. No matter what you say Eubank was past his best. I've heard that he was weight drained from numerous people over the years, if it isn't true, so be it, but I've not heard anything to the contrary in all that time until now.

And yes, how DO you know he wasn't?

How long did Calzaghe have to prepare for the fight? Longer than Eubank I'll wager.

As I said it was a good victory, but Eubank was already on the wane by the time Calzaghe got to him, as were Charles Brewer and Byron Mitchell. Both were still good fighters, but hardly at the height of their powers.

The fact is, Calzaghe hasn't beaten anyone of the calibre of a PRIME Eubank, Benn, Collins, or Watson this far in his career.

You seem to want to reinvent history on Calzaghe's behalf. Nobody thinks Calzaghe is a shit fighter, in fact the frustration is entirely because he appears to be so good, yet time and again we don't get to see him in the big fight where he gets to prove himself.

All that could be said if Calzaghe were to retire tommorow, is that he was a long standing WBO champion, who beat Eubank's record, but who never proved beyond doubt that he was the best in his division.

Of course, that's not entirely Joe's fault, Sven Ottke wanted no part of a fight with Calzaghe, but Joe could have proven he was the better man by beating a lot of other guys, who sadly he has never faced. Was Calzaghe better than Ottke? My guess is he probably was, and I think he probably still is the best in the division, but my inclination to say that is weakening with the passing of time, and the emergence of new talent. I'd love to see Calzaghe take on a dangerous banger like Green right now, it would be an exciting fight, and would prove that Calzaghe was still too good for the young guns, however I get the feeling that won't happen, and so do a lot of other people.

I don't believe I'm reading this. Joe Calzaghe pulled out of a genuine world title shot on home soil against a 35-year-old champion at seven days' notice...with a bad back!
Put your spin on that.

I'm a little older than you might think.

Eubank may feel that, that doesn't make it so, George Foreman said Lennox Lewis would have destroyed Ali, and that he was the best heavyweight in history. Eubank was a great fighter, one of my favourites in fact, strange he thinks Calzaghe would have beat Benn, Collins and Watson, and not himself eh? Fighters often make such comments to feed their own ego, and Eubank is hardly the shy retiring type is he now?

I don't recally him saying that at the fight, I'll have to dig the tape out.

You seem to continually evade the point. Would you admit that Calzaghe hasn't proven himself to be the best in the division? Surely that is beyond doubt? There are PLENTY of guys left for Calzaghe to face at super middleweight, his career will be judged on his level of competition, and aside from Eubank, (which as I said was still a very good performance) Brewer and Mitchell, he hasn't faced a great level of competition.

Eubank, Benn and Watson had the benefit of fighting one another, but Benn also went to America to beat DeWitt, , Barkley, and lest we forget Gerald McClellan on home soil. I suppose you could argue that Brewer and Mitchell were at the same level as Barkley was when he fought Benn, maybe so.

Of course Nige had his fair share of stiffs early in his career, like Michael Chilambe, one of many mexican and african 'roadsweepers' and not everyone on his resume is a world beater, he also was never the undisputed best, and neither were Watson or Eubank.

I still think that Eubank's performances had already gone downhill by the time he got to Thompson, Eubank probably benefitted a little from not having to make the weight at super middle any more, was a great performance though admittedly.

I take on board your point about him being born 5 years too late. Certainly there would have been a much better domestic scene for him to ply his trade in, but why not travel and fight like Benn and Eubank both did at various stages of his career. Sure, the money might not always add up, but if Calzaghe had gone and fought stateside 1 or 2 years ago, who knows what opportunities might have arisen?

There are still plenty of fights out there for Joe, but Calzaghe seems to only be interested in landing the big fight. I find it hard to believe he is going to get a fight with someone like Tarver or Hopkins, nobody in the US knows who he is!

We can argue the various merits of Calzaghe's abilities, but that isn't the issue, the issue is that British fight fans would love to see Joe in a truly defining fight, and that is something which looks unlikely, do you agree?

rubberjohnny wrote:

bennie wrote:I don't believe I'm reading this. Joe Calzaghe pulled out of a genuine world title shot on home soil against a 35-year-old champion at seven days' notice...with a bad back!
Put your spin on that.

What spin is there? Would you fight ANYONE or get in a ring at all if you were not 100% fit? Would you encourage anyone to do that?

He had a bad back simple as that?
Are you saying he was lying?

I think you are letting your 'anti-Warren' feelings cloud your brain Mr Bennie.

Boxing is dangerous enough with taking silly risks, is it not?

You ask a lot of questions for a guy who knows a lot.

rubberjohnny wrote: What spin is there? Would you fight ANYONE or get in a ring at all if you were not 100% fit? Would you encourage anyone to do that?

He had a bad back simple as that?
Are you saying he was lying?

I think you are letting your 'anti-Warren' feelings cloud your brain Mr Bennie.

Boxing is dangerous enough with taking silly risks, is it not?

True or not, fact is it looked bad. Both here and abroad.

Joe is set up to fight for a real world title ( at long last ) and a few weeks before he is making the gossip pages of the red tops, out on the town with his new girlfriend.
Then, when everyone is thinking "this guy is not behaving like he has a big fight coming up" he pulls out of the fight.

I bet Frank wasn't too pleased.

What's up next after the Egyptian Mummy? Is Jeff Lacy in the works?

rubberjohnny wrote:Lost for words are you? Made yourself look a bit a a pratt with that last post didn't you. Mind you in your position you could alway's take it off and I wouldn't blame you if you did Steven.

It's nice to have that option with prats like you.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Collins was also having problems at that time too, wasn't he getting knocked out in the gym? Collins was at the end of a long hard career,

I think he passed out after a hard sparring session with Howard Eastman.