BoxRec

Golovkin is a natural middleweight, and has the habit to fight fattened welterweights, or boxers that surely didn't begin their careers as middleweights, and don't have such a robust complexion and thick bone structure as he has: I'll tell you that it's less than nice to me watching him hammer out smaller guys all over the place...

I personally hate it when a boxer is clearly smaller than his own opponent, and I don't have much sympathy for athletes that repeatedly try to fight smaller guys (anyone said "Bernard Hopkins"?).
I can't see how so many people can hail Golovkin and incense him almost as if he was the next Sugar Ray, and then rant at Mayweather jr. (who fought the best possible opposition or nearly) calling him a sissy just because he had a defensive, kind of "wait-and-see" style.

I'll grant Golovkin an impressive amateur record: as many asian boxers, he was fighting very often since a tender age, likely building up more experience than most of his international opponents.
He has some power too, but in my opinion he takes too many clean shots and, despite being very well trained, he's not enough skilled to really deserve all the hype he gets. When he faced a true possible all-timer, or close to that, in Canelo (a former welterweight quite thinner than GGG), he got schooled.

My question is: is there any political bias about Golovkin, or else? Why is he really so popular, and considered p4p better than Lomachenko by boxrec?

I don't mean to start a flame, just wondering why people is so enthusiast about fighters whose main fights were against physically smaller and weaker opponents.

I also reckon that I'm not a boxing expert, and I just pointed out my impressions, knowing that I might be wrong, without meaning to offend anyone.

For me GGG is popular because he really worked very hard to be in position for the big fights. In his prime he was avoided like plague by other mw champions like Sturm, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and JCCjr and he had no choice but to fight all top mw contenders at that time(Proksa, Macklin, Stevens, Geale, Rubio, Murray and Monroe Jr till he got in position to get better names like Lemieux, Brook, Jacobs and of course Canelo.

How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Didn't really need this thread when there is already a "Middleweight Great" one discussing the same thing.

reminds me of iron frost

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 14:45 For me GGG is popular because he really worked very hard to be in position for the big fights. In his prime he was avoided like plague by other mw champions like Sturm, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and JCCjr and he had no choice but to fight all top mw contenders at that time(Proksa, Macklin, Stevens, Geale, Rubio, Murray and Monroe Jr till he got in position to get better names like Lemieux, Brook, Jacobs and of course Canelo.

Well said. What's not to like with his 2 fisted all action, all attack style? "Big drama show" indeed. Even both 'Canelo cartel' robberies were great fights.

Until recently he didn't need judges and gave them no chance whatsoever to cheat him with dodgy scoring.

I doubt whether they'll be queuing up to fight him now.

paddy chavez wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:03 How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Not all of them were welterweights, but let's say that at least Martirosyan, Geale, Macklin, Ishida, Rosado, Ouma, Tapia, Nunez and Carvalho (I didn't check many others for it would have been boring) started out their own professional careers as less-than-middleweights, while Golovkin fought at middleweight since his own amateur years, proof that he indeed is a natural middleweight, with the adequate bone structure, something that was missing by the above cited.

You can compare the size of their wrists to Golovkin's, and state that Canelo's arms were also quite thinner than GGG's (as Pavlik's wrists were thinner than Hopkins': way to "school" a thinner opponent... And to think that Pavlik never quite mentally recovered from that debacle... What a shame for such a big-hearted fighter...): a bigger skeleton adds quite something to your punching power, do you reckon?

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:14 Didn't really need this thread when there is already a "Middleweight Great" one discussing the same thing.

I beg your pardon, I didn't really notice it

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 14:45 For me GGG is popular because he really worked very hard to be in position for the big fights. In his prime he was avoided like plague by other mw champions like Sturm, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and JCCjr and he had no choice but to fight all top mw contenders at that time(Proksa, Macklin, Stevens, Geale, Rubio, Murray and Monroe Jr till he got in position to get better names like Lemieux, Brook, Jacobs and of course Canelo.

That's a good statement.

You need to work hard just to be in the business, let alone to win trophies.

Golovkin, as many Eastern Europeans, Asians and Cubans (countries where amateur boxing has spread a lot), reach quite early in their lives a great amateur status that give them tactical experience, ring smarts and ability to adapt to opponents's styles, which make them great boxers before to even start their pro careers, and take them less fights to fit in and go for the belts.

That said, I'm still not very convinced by Golovkin's opposition, and threads proposing him as an all-time great make me a little suspicious.

I'd say that Golovkin has had a smart entourage, knowledgeable handlers and wise promoters to say the least

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 19:23

paddy chavez wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:03 How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Not all of them were welterweights, but let's say that at least Martirosyan, Geale, Macklin, Ishida, Rosado, Ouma, Tapia, Nunez and Carvalho (I didn't check many others for it would have been boring) started out their own professional careers as less-than-middleweights, while Golovkin fought at middleweight since his own amateur years, proof that he indeed is a natural middleweight, with the adequate bone structure, something that was missing by the above cited.

You can compare the size of their wrists to Golovkin's, and state that Canelo's arms were also quite thinner than GGG's (as Pavlik's wrists were thinner than Hopkins': way to "school" a thinner opponent... And to think that Pavlik never quite mentally recovered from that debacle... What a shame for such a big-hearted fighter...): a bigger skeleton adds quite something to your punching power, do you reckon?

You could say the same for Hagler and Hopkins .... Haglers 3 biggest fights were against 2 welterweights and a lightweight
And Hopkins against a former super feather weight and a welterweight weight.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 19:23

paddy chavez wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:03 How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Not all of them were welterweights, but let's say that at least Martirosyan, Geale, Macklin, Ishida, Rosado, Ouma, Tapia, Nunez and Carvalho (I didn't check many others for it would have been boring) started out their own professional careers as less-than-middleweights, while Golovkin fought at middleweight since his own amateur years, proof that he indeed is a natural middleweight, with the adequate bone structure, something that was missing by the above cited.

You can compare the size of their wrists to Golovkin's, and state that Canelo's arms were also quite thinner than GGG's (as Pavlik's wrists were thinner than Hopkins': way to "school" a thinner opponent... And to think that Pavlik never quite mentally recovered from that debacle... What a shame for such a big-hearted fighter...): a bigger skeleton adds quite something to your punching power, do you reckon?

Lol at ishida, he was the biggest Jr middle I've ever seen. Quite fit at heavyweight. GGG was not a beneficiary of a size advantage.

paddy chavez wrote: ↑28 Oct 2018, 04:14

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 19:23

paddy chavez wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:03 How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Not all of them were welterweights, but let's say that at least Martirosyan, Geale, Macklin, Ishida, Rosado, Ouma, Tapia, Nunez and Carvalho (I didn't check many others for it would have been boring) started out their own professional careers as less-than-middleweights, while Golovkin fought at middleweight since his own amateur years, proof that he indeed is a natural middleweight, with the adequate bone structure, something that was missing by the above cited.

You can compare the size of their wrists to Golovkin's, and state that Canelo's arms were also quite thinner than GGG's (as Pavlik's wrists were thinner than Hopkins': way to "school" a thinner opponent... And to think that Pavlik never quite mentally recovered from that debacle... What a shame for such a big-hearted fighter...): a bigger skeleton adds quite something to your punching power, do you reckon?

You could say the same for Hagler and Hopkins .... Haglers 3 biggest fights were against 2 welterweights and a lightweight
And Hopkins against a former super feather weight and a welterweight weight.

Indeed, quite sadly... Altho those famous 3 biggest fights were against opponents probably tougher than Golovkin will ever be able to face, and that's not his fault... We are talking about all-time p4p greats.

At least Hagler also fought the tough natural middleweight Minter (who had killed a man inside the ring)...

...And don't forget that he also fought Roy Jones http://boxrec.com/en/event/301/23288

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Oct 2018, 04:17

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 19:23

paddy chavez wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:03 How many welterweights has he fought I can only think of Brook ....?

Not all of them were welterweights, but let's say that at least Martirosyan, Geale, Macklin, Ishida, Rosado, Ouma, Tapia, Nunez and Carvalho (I didn't check many others for it would have been boring) started out their own professional careers as less-than-middleweights, while Golovkin fought at middleweight since his own amateur years, proof that he indeed is a natural middleweight, with the adequate bone structure, something that was missing by the above cited.

You can compare the size of their wrists to Golovkin's, and state that Canelo's arms were also quite thinner than GGG's (as Pavlik's wrists were thinner than Hopkins': way to "school" a thinner opponent... And to think that Pavlik never quite mentally recovered from that debacle... What a shame for such a big-hearted fighter...): a bigger skeleton adds quite something to your punching power, do you reckon?

Lol at ishida, he was the biggest Jr middle I've ever seen. Quite fit at heavyweight. GGG was not a beneficiary of a size advantage.

Ishida?? Ishida was 38 when he fought seven-years-younger GGG... He had also lost to modest, overprotected, past-his-prime superwelterweight Rigoberto Alvarez... And he also lost every title bout against any above-superwelterweight contender. Not quite enough to make him great opposition, having also a less-than-imaculate record.

Ishida had a two inches reach advantage on Golovkin, I'll grant you that... But, compare their wrists: Ishida was just a skinnier ectomorph natural superwelterweight who didn't even make it three full rounds against the more powerful, altho slower Golovkin.

I didn't say he was great opposition, listing him as a smaller fighter is hysterical .

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Oct 2018, 05:43 I didn't say he was great opposition, listing him as a smaller fighter is hysterical .

He was taller, but skinnier than GGG.

But but golovkin bones are bigger wider...but but but golovkin is taller...but but but golovkin has three names, his opponents only have two. Smh.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑28 Oct 2018, 06:04

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Oct 2018, 05:43 I didn't say he was great opposition, listing him as a smaller fighter is hysterical .

He was taller, but skinnier than GGG.

He was fit at heavyweight

jamamb wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 15:33 reminds me of iron frost

That's praise indeed! I didn't know Iron Frost could even fight

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Oct 2018, 14:45 For me GGG is popular because he really worked very hard to be in position for the big fights. In his prime he was avoided like plague by other mw champions like Sturm, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and JCCjr and he had no choice but to fight all top mw contenders at that time(Proksa, Macklin, Stevens, Geale, Rubio, Murray and Monroe Jr till he got in position to get better names like Lemieux, Brook, Jacobs and of course Canelo.

Can you provide any examples of financial offers submitted by Tom Loeffler to the fighters that you accuse of "ducking" GGG?

GGG clearly has a reputation for being one of the most avoided middleweights in history, but I haven’t seen any evidence to justify its existence, which means I’m hoping you can provide some.

Want to make a lie seem true? Say it again. And again. And Again.

On a side note, GGG is a really good fighter and is certain to become a dead-cert sure-fire first ballot Hall-of-Famer.

I just don’t believe all the so-called myths about him being “ducked” because I don’t rate Tom Loeffler’s ability to make fights. He seems to wait for opportunities to approach him, resulting in Gennady persistently facing far less than stellar calibre opposition, rather than exerting any effort to make the biggest bouts happen.

My criticism of GGG’s handlers may seem extremely harsh, but even Golvokin’s most ardent admirers will surely find it almost impossible to list any financial offers that Loeffler submitted to any of the fighters detailed in apollo creed’s post (i.e. "Sturm, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and JCCjr").

If I'm wrong, then somebody please prove otherwise.

I'm just a little sceptical about Golovkin... maybe I'll change my mind later on... by now I don't see him as an all-timer. I rather see Canelo as a possible one.

Nice reading you guys anyway.