BoxRec

“We wish Charlo well in his fight scheduled against a tricky guy [Monroe] that GGG beat three years ago in the sixth round…We’re just working on the best deal for GGG right now,” said Loeffler in a text message to BS.com.

Obviously GGG is chasing a third fight with Canelo and we should not blame him.

obsessed

jamamb wrote: ↑05 Nov 2018, 15:04obsessed

Loefller is telling the truth. Willie Monroe Jr was knocked out by GGG in 2015.

It's no shame for Charlo to consider Willie a test for him.

Loeffler and Sanchez have both said numerous times that they have no interest in fighting Charlo.

So why do they feel that they're in a position to mock Charlo's choice of opponent?

Abel Sanchez has already ruled out the possibility of bouts between GGG and dangerous hungry up-and-coming lions like Jacobs, Andrade, Charlo and Saunders, because they’re “young fighters” that “bring nothing to the table” and they also needed to “prove themselves” in order to “earn the right” to share the ring with Golovkin.

Sanchez also stated that only box office fights “make sense” at this late stage of Gennady’s career, so name recognition is a key consideration factor.

There was a time when GGG arrived on the world scene and his big name rivals were aggressively criticised, even ridiculed, for saying precisely the same things, but the rules have changed, haven’t they? It’s clear there are double-standards being applied.

Also, Abel also didn’t sound too keen on GGG facing Callum Smith, because Gennady is small middleweight and “168lbs is a big stretch for him”.

This is obviously a complete turnaround on Team GGG’s previous long-time boasts, whereby they persistently claimed that Golovkin was able to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. They also said that Gennady was even dominating cruiserweights in sparring.

It’s kind of ironic how times have changed, but people’s memories continue to selectively fade-away!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 16:02 Abel Sanchez has already ruled out the possibility of bouts between GGG and dangerous hungry up-and-coming lions like Jacobs, Andrade, Charlo and Saunders, because they’re “young fighters” that “bring nothing to the table” and they also needed to “prove themselves” in order to “earn the right” to share the ring with Golovkin.

Sanchez also stated that only box office fights “make sense” at this late stage of Gennady’s career, so name recognition is a key consideration factor.

There was a time when GGG arrived on the world scene and his big name rivals were aggressively criticised, even ridiculed, for saying precisely the same things, but the rules have changed, haven’t they? It’s clear there are double-standards being applied.

Also, Abel also didn’t sound too keen on GGG facing Callum Smith, because Gennady is small middleweight and “168lbs is a big stretch for him”.

This is obviously a complete turnaround on Team GGG’s previous long-time boasts, whereby they persistently claimed that Golovkin was able to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. They also said that Gennady was even dominating cruiserweights in sparring.

It’s kind of ironic how times have changed, but people’s memories continue to selectively fade-away!

Plenty (most?) of Golovkin fans recognise Sanchez chats too much shít, and actually want him to continue facing threats.

There's also context involved. I don't know if you read my response to an almost identical post on the thread about GGG winning the belts back by 40.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 16:51

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 16:02 Abel Sanchez has already ruled out the possibility of bouts between GGG and dangerous hungry up-and-coming lions like Jacobs, Andrade, Charlo and Saunders, because they’re “young fighters” that “bring nothing to the table” and they also needed to “prove themselves” in order to “earn the right” to share the ring with Golovkin.

Sanchez also stated that only box office fights “make sense” at this late stage of Gennady’s career, so name recognition is a key consideration factor.

There was a time when GGG arrived on the world scene and his big name rivals were aggressively criticised, even ridiculed, for saying precisely the same things, but the rules have changed, haven’t they? It’s clear there are double-standards being applied.

Also, Abel also didn’t sound too keen on GGG facing Callum Smith, because Gennady is small middleweight and “168lbs is a big stretch for him”.

This is obviously a complete turnaround on Team GGG’s previous long-time boasts, whereby they persistently claimed that Golovkin was able to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. They also said that Gennady was even dominating cruiserweights in sparring.

It’s kind of ironic how times have changed, but people’s memories continue to selectively fade-away!

Plenty (most?) of Golovkin fans recognise Sanchez chats too much shít, and actually want him to continue facing threats.

There's also context involved. I don't know if you read my response to an almost identical post on the thread about GGG winning the belts back by 40.

I agree that context is key and I understand, perhpaps even endorse, Team GGG’s penchant to employ the risk versus return ratio, which is particularly important to a fighter of his age.

The thing is, fight fans don’t allow other fighters in similar situations to make similar decisions.

Veteran fighters gets ridiculed for not facing a dangerous and young version of GGG, because he didn’t provide them with a decent payday.

The veteran version of GGG gets applauded for not facing dangerous and young fighters, because they don’t provide him with decent paydays.

Either both are “wrong” or both are “right”. And if not, then double standards are being applied.

When Golovkin was calling out Martinez, Cotto, Canelo, Froch, etc. he was a long time WBA Super Champion. Charlo is nobody at MW and faced nobody at MW.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:03 Either both are “wrong” or both are “right”. And if not, then double standards are being applied.

Hit the nail on the head there. I'll wait and see who he actually does fight, then praise or criticise from there.

There is a point that does need to be made though. Golovkin doesn't currently hold any belts, so he's not blocking any younger fighters from achieving their dream. If he wants to face soft touches, his legacy suffers a bit, but he only hurts himself. The older fighters drawing criticism (rightly or wrongly) when GGG was the hungry lion, DID hold titles, so were seen to be holding up Golovkin's quest to clean up.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:14 When Golovkin was calling out Martinez, Cotto, Canelo, Froch, etc. he was a long time WBA Super Champion. Charlo is nobody at MW and faced nobody at MW.

Are you forgetting his “regular” title reign?

Can you provide details of the financial offers that Tom Loeffler submitted to Martinez, Cotto, Canelo and Froch?

You cannot do this, since those guys never received any to turn down.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:17

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:03 Either both are “wrong” or both are “right”. And if not, then double standards are being applied.

Hit the nail on the head there. I'll wait and see who he actually does fight, then praise or criticise from there.

There is a point that does need to be made though. Golovkin doesn't currently hold any belts, so he's not blocking any younger fighters from achieving their dream. If he wants to face soft touches, his legacy suffers a bit, but he only hurts himself. The older fighters drawing criticism (rightly or wrongly) when GGG was the hungry lion, DID hold titles, so were seen to be holding up Golovkin's quest to clean up.

When GGG held a regular title for a long time. He didn’t offer any of the other champions big money.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:17

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:03 Either both are “wrong” or both are “right”. And if not, then double standards are being applied.

Hit the nail on the head there. I'll wait and see who he actually does fight, then praise or criticise from there.

There is a point that does need to be made though. Golovkin doesn't currently hold any belts, so he's not blocking any younger fighters from achieving their dream. If he wants to face soft touches, his legacy suffers a bit, but he only hurts himself. The older fighters drawing criticism (rightly or wrongly) when GGG was the hungry lion, DID hold titles, so were seen to be holding up Golovkin's quest to clean up.

This CLOWN EO is on his soapbox again..Calling it a "double standard" because GGG is doing onto to others as they have done onto him. Two very different stages of his career. Do you even understand Boxing guys? At all?

Boxers earn the ability to be selective at this stage of their careers. The boxers that have been a part of multiple Pay Per View Successes no longer have to take the fights that bring little return. These fighters and promoters avoided GGG for years and years...he was THE most avoided fighter in many years. I don't blame them for now giving everyone the taste of their own medicine. You and I would do the exact same thing. It's called being smart...people didn't have a problem with it before when GGG couldn't get a fight so screw them if they have a problem now.

EO, you are as deep as a puddle. Go away.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑08 Nov 2018, 09:26 This CLOWN EO is on his soapbox again..Calling it a "double standard" because GGG is doing onto to others as they have done onto him. Two very different stages of his career. Do you even understand Boxing guys? At all?

Boxers earn the ability to be selective at this stage of their careers. The boxers that have been a part of multiple Pay Per View Successes no longer have to take the fights that bring little return. These fighters and promoters avoided GGG for years and years...he was THE most avoided fighter in many years. I don't blame them for now giving everyone the taste of their own medicine. You and I would do the exact same thing. It's called being smart...people didn't have a problem with it before when GGG couldn't get a fight so screw them if they have a problem now.

EO, you are as deep as a puddle. Go away.

Yup, GGG is at the stage where he's fighting for big money because he has done his hard work.

As for EO (Empy One) User Datsue described very well this type of attention seeker-troll like E.O :

" Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.

Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!

It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric. "

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:29

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:17

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:03 Either both are “wrong” or both are “right”. And if not, then double standards are being applied.

Hit the nail on the head there. I'll wait and see who he actually does fight, then praise or criticise from there.

There is a point that does need to be made though. Golovkin doesn't currently hold any belts, so he's not blocking any younger fighters from achieving their dream. If he wants to face soft touches, his legacy suffers a bit, but he only hurts himself. The older fighters drawing criticism (rightly or wrongly) when GGG was the hungry lion, DID hold titles, so were seen to be holding up Golovkin's quest to clean up.

When GGG held a regular title for a long time. He didn’t offer any of the other champions big money.

Why is that relevant?

We weren't discussing money. We were discussing older fighters still taking the toughest fights (or not).

I've openly stated that Golovkin should continue fighting top fighters - as I believed Sergio, Cotto, Sturm etc should have done.

If you're using money as a defence for those fighters not giving Golovkin a shot, why are you so critical of Golovkin for not wanting to fight Charlo (a fight that may actually still happen, down the line)? Charlo brings no money.

For clarity (again), I don't even believe that should be used as an excuse, if a particular fighter wants to be known as the best. Nobody, other than you, brought that up.

My only defence of Golovkin, should he decide to take it easy, is that he's not holding anyone else back. He still hurts his own legacy. The names above did both (less so, Sergio, because I don't believe GGG was ever his mandatory).

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑08 Nov 2018, 17:04

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:29

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 Nov 2018, 17:17

Hit the nail on the head there. I'll wait and see who he actually does fight, then praise or criticise from there.

There is a point that does need to be made though. Golovkin doesn't currently hold any belts, so he's not blocking any younger fighters from achieving their dream. If he wants to face soft touches, his legacy suffers a bit, but he only hurts himself. The older fighters drawing criticism (rightly or wrongly) when GGG was the hungry lion, DID hold titles, so were seen to be holding up Golovkin's quest to clean up.

When GGG held a regular title for a long time. He didn’t offer any of the other champions big money.

Why is that relevant?

We weren't discussing money. We were discussing older fighters still taking the toughest fights (or not).

I've openly stated that Golovkin should continue fighting top fighters - as I believed Sergio, Cotto, Sturm etc should have done.

If you're using money as a defence for those fighters not giving Golovkin a shot, why are you so critical of Golovkin for not wanting to fight Charlo (a fight that may actually still happen, down the line)? Charlo brings no money.

For clarity (again), I don't even believe that should be used as an excuse, if a particular fighter wants to be known as the best. Nobody, other than you, brought that up.

My only defence of Golovkin, should he decide to take it easy, is that he's not holding anyone else back. He still hurts his own legacy. The names above did both (less so, Sergio, because I don't believe GGG was ever his mandatory).

Sorry, I didn’t articulate my thoughts very well in that post you quoted.

I guess the point I was trying to make relates to GGG’s handlers not submitting any financial offers to any of the bigger name middleweight champions, whilst preferring to engage in world title defences against opponents that weren’t considered amongst the top-ten 160lb-ers:

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Golovkin faced these unrated guys when he was a world champion and also (mostly) headlining HBO televised events. So I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler did him a disservice by failing to submit financial offers to better fighters.

And let’s not forget about Sanchez’s comments about Team GGG’s apparent disinterest in facing Jacobs (rematch), Charlo and Andrade prior to his sequel against Canelo.

I really can’t think of a valid reason why GGG didn’t face more top-ten 160lb-ers since his arrival on the world-scene a decade ago.

So what I’m basically saying is this… Gennady faced a lot of “soft touches” when he was in his physical prime, instead of facing more threatening foes, so you could argue that his team hurt his legacy by making those choices. And now that he’s on the decline, it’s clear that he now chooses to refrain from facing any dangerous opposition unless he is being paid handsomely to do so.

It sounds like I’m criticising Golovkin, but that’s not what I’m trying to do., since he has been one of my favourite fighters for quite some time, but I'm sadly unimpressed with how his career has been handled.

My real goal here is to point out that Gennady (or his handlers) have done things previously and continues making decisions that other fighters were ridiculed for by fight fans, but yet he somehow manages to escape criticism from the very same set of people. There’s a lack of consistency in terms of rules and standards being applied.

I’m not sure if we really disagree on things, but I have elaborated on the reasons for my opinion in order to clarify my stance on this matter.

LOL

What about Geale, Macklin, Murray, Lemieux and Jacobs ??

apollo creed wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 10:36 LOL

What about Geale, Macklin, Murray, Lemieux and Jacobs ??

LOL

What about Dominic Wade, Willie Monroe Jr., Osumanu Adama, Marco Antonio Rubio, Curtis Stevens, Nobuhiro Ishida, Gabriel Rosado, Grzegorz Proksa, Makoto Fuchigami, Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma, Kell Brook, Vanes Martirosyan, Nilson Julio Tapia and Milton Nunez ??

The funny thing is that Charlo's best win at mw would probably be Willie Monroe Jr , a guy who GGG ktfo him 3 years ago.

apollo creed wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 11:28 The funny thing is that Charlo's best win at mw would probably be Willie Monroe Jr , a guy who GGG ktfo him 3 years ago.

A world champion like GGG should never have faced Monroe Jr. in the first place. It was a voluntary defence and at the time of their fight, Willie wasn’t rated as a top-ten middleweight by ESPN or The RING. Golovkin defended his world crowns against an unproven fighter that didn’t deserve to share the ring with him.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status, which was his second successive final eliminator.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than fifteen months and has engaged in two WBC ordered final eliminators! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but they lied.

So it’s not unreasonable for a contender, like Jermall Charlo, to engage in a stay busy fight, since he’s jumped through all the hoops the WBC have asked of him.

I don't even know why they're even talking about Charlo? This is an odd move. Charlo is currently fighting leftovers and garbage fighters. He's no threat to anyone unlike Derevyanchenko and Jacobs who just finished an intense fight against one another. Dumb for GGG's promoter to even do this.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 12:54 I don't even know why they're even talking about Charlo? This is an odd move. Charlo is currently fighting leftovers and garbage fighters. He's no threat to anyone unlike Derevyanchenko and Jacobs who just finished an intense fight against one another. Dumb for GGG's promoter to even do this.

Imagine Jermall going 12 rds with Willie Monroe Jr!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 11:59

apollo creed wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 11:28 The funny thing is that Charlo's best win at mw would probably be Willie Monroe Jr , a guy who GGG ktfo him 3 years ago.

A world champion like GGG should never have faced Monroe Jr. in the first place. It was a voluntary defence and at the time of their fight, Willie wasn’t rated as a top-ten middleweight by ESPN or The RING. Golovkin defended his world crowns against an unproven fighter that didn’t deserve to share the ring with him.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status, which was his second successive final eliminator.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than fifteen months and has engaged in two WBC ordered final eliminators! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but they lied.

So it’s not unreasonable for a contender, like Jermall Charlo, to engage in a stay busy fight, since he’s jumped through all the hoops the WBC have asked of him.

If he takes out Monroe Jr, I'd like to see Charlo fighting a top guy like Jacobs, BJS, Lemieux or Andrade. If he's gonna fight another stiff it woud be bad for his profile.