BoxRec

Prime Vs prime of course (as far as we know it so far for AJ)

Who wins and how? I fancy Bowe. A little faster, cuter and had a more varied arsenal.

I'm of the minority opinion that there were very few if any HW's who could beat Bowe at his prime. However....his prime was 13 nanoseconds long. And that can't be overstated.

So most of the time in their respective careers I'd favor Joshua.....but actual moments of Prime? Bowe.

Of course Joshua is still improving......so that may not be the final answer.

He didn't have the career that he should have. However, he was a great fight for a few years.

Bowe

It would be easier to assess Bowe if he had faced more good fighters. Given his lack of quality opponents aside from Holyfield there are a lot of unanswered questions but the Golota fights don't give me much confidence he could handle Joshua.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑08 Nov 2018, 23:00 It would be easier to assess Bowe if he had faced more good fighters. Given his lack of quality opponents aside from Holyfield there are a lot of unanswered questions but the Golota fights don't give me much confidence he could handle Joshua.

Joshua himself wouldn't have handled that version of Golota. Of course, if not only the low-blow terror would have been unleashed by Andrew.

What cracks me up is that we currently have Fantasy fight threads for all three of the Current "Big Three Heavyweights" (Wilder, Fury, and Joshua) against fighters from the past. The fighters from the past (Marciano, Charles, and Bowe) are proven commodities. They were tested on their way up fought great fighters during their primes. They each beat opponents who were just punching bags.

However, all three of the current fighters are untested. None have fought each other yet; though Fury and Wilder are supposed to fight in a few weeks.
Might be a good idea to hold off on evaluating these guys we have some sort of idea how they will do against better competition.

Kind of like how Bowe was tested against Lewis Tyson Ruddock McCall Moorer etc etc

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:16 What cracks me up is that we currently have Fantasy fight threads for all three of the Current "Big Three Heavyweights" (Wilder, Fury, and Joshua) against fighters from the past. The fighters from the past (Marciano, Charles, and Bowe) are proven commodities. They were tested on their way up fought great fighters during their primes. They each beat opponents who were just punching bags.

However, all three of the current fighters are untested. None have fought each other yet; though Fury and Wilder are supposed to fight in a few weeks.
Might be a good idea to hold off on evaluating these guys we have some sort of idea how they will do against better competition.

This is actually a good point.

George Foreman for example is considered a legend by many despite beating only 5 guys ranked in the top 10 his entire career. Joshua has already nearly matched Foreman in number of top contenders beaten and has already matched or surpassed Bowe.

Foreman crushed 2 ATGs from all-time top-20 list in their primes, Bowe won 2 times against an ATG from top-10, once against a prime version. Joshua won a future ATG past-prime, but hasn't faced the today's highest league yet (that's Wilder and Fury) despite winning some other top fighters.

I can't see any case for anyone Foreman beat bar Frazier being in the top 20, who is this other ATG he beat?

As far as Bowe goes, he has the wins over Holyfield but beyond that he didn't face his best contemporaries. Where are the fights with Lewis and Tyson? If Joshua needs to prove himself against the Fury/Wilder winner than doesn't Bowe's failure to fight Lewis and Tyson impact his legacy? Bowe also has the beatings at the hands of Golota.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 15:10 I can't see any case for anyone Foreman beat bar Frazier being in the top 20, who is this other ATG he beat?

So you don't rate Norton?

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 15:10 As far as Bowe goes, he has the wins over Holyfield but beyond that he didn't face his best contemporaries. Where are the fights with Lewis and Tyson? If Joshua needs to prove himself against the Fury/Wilder winner than doesn't Bowe's failure to fight Lewis and Tyson impact his legacy? Bowe also has the beatings at the hands of Golota.

We need to see those potential Joshua fights. Maybe he'll surpass Bowe, but he hasn't for the moment.

Norton is difficult to rate he does well against boxers but seems to be totally helpless against big hitters. He is capable of beating some highly rated guys but by the same token could easily lose to guys generally rated outside the top 50 and even top 100 who happen to have big power.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 15:32 Norton is difficult to rate he does well against boxers but seems to be totally helpless against big hitters. He is capable of beating some highly rated guys but by the same token could easily lose to guys generally rated outside the top 50 and even top 100 who happen to have big power.

Still his skills and achievements were impressive. Top-20 boxer for me with no doubt.

Bowe makes him crap in his trunks

From what I have seen so far, have to agree.
So far Joshua has done nothing.
Bowe beat a prime Holyfield. He barely lost the rematch.
Now could do the usually BS that we hear a lot about lately. We can point out that Bowe beat a lot of guys with pretty records.
However, lets go with this: Bowe beat Tony Tubbs. That is a bigger win than anything Joshua has done up to this point. And he did it with just two years experience.

Foreman's resume is not worth arguing. It speaks for itself.

I should note I never was a fan of Bowe, but he was 2nd to Lennox Lewis--- Pinklon Thomas, Bert Cooper, Tony Tubbs, Tyrell Biggs, Bruce Seldon, Holyfield (twice), Dokes, Ferguson, etc all on his resume.

The late great Eddie Futch, who trained the likes of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, said that Bowe had the greatest potential of any fighter he ever saw. Mills Lane said Bowe could have been one of the greatest who ever lived but squandered it away.

Let's put it this way.... 6'5" and 240 pounds, 81" reach.... When he brought his A game nobody was going to stop him... He was one of the very few men who actually stopped Everett Bigfoot Martin in his prime (the same guy who went ten out of ten rounds with Foreman), so Bowe had a heck of a lot of power to go with his skills--- which is further cemented by the fact he did what Tyson and Lewis couldn't and that was stop Holyfield.

I should think at least several of Joshua's opponents would be favored over Tubbs, Povetkin and Wladimir and probably also Parker. Joshua also doesn't have anything comparable to Bowe's beatings at the hands of Golota so far.

Bose was also getting hit low constantly. That was part of the "beating". The Klitschko fight was just an embarrassing. He got decked by a senior citizen nd it took him 11 runs to stop Glass Jaw.
And that is actually his biggest win! What a joke.
Tubbs actually has some decent wins. And Bowe beat him well before he reached his prime.

That is the big knock against AJ...

Klitschko was older than the Fury version and inactive... Yet Joshua hit the deck, nearly lost, and it took 11 rounds... Klitschko's been kayoed twice prior to Joshua (2nd round to Sanders & 5th round to Brewster) and we can't forget Klitschko getting dropped three times by Samuel Peter, who outside of his power wasn't anything to write home about.

For all the people talking him up, it doesn't make sense. Not really. Whyte beat Parker more convincingly than AJ did, but nobody is talking him up. At least with Fury, we know the goal in his mind has always been to beat Wladimir at his own game (boxing chess matches)--- so he can be forgiven.

Bowe in 6 or 7. Exciting two way fight, riddick wins with the better chin.

Bowe was getting dominated prior to the low blows. That can't be used as an excuse given how the fights played out.

Bowe

@ Bowe getting dominated by Golota... In the end... Golota wasn't good enough (twice) because he beat himself... And never forget, even with Bowe getting the snot knocked out of him, etc he was only dropped two times in his career--- once against Holyfield in the rubber match, and once against Golota in the second fight. One was in his prime, the other at the tail end.

AJ in the amateurs and in the pros has been dropped--- and even in sparring he's been crumbled (ie, Lawrence Okolie) so his capacity in terms of punch resistance is not really the best. Then again, he's proven he could get off the canvas to win.

Bowe, also, when he fought Golota was in essence mentally/emotionally and physically "passed it"--- he loved the money and what came with the title, but had no real interest or ambition to be "the man" in the division. If he did he'd of fought Lennox Lewis instead of getting a refrigerator installed in his bedroom.

The Bowe who fought Holyfield, I'm not sure if any heavyweight (other than the top five or ten in history) could have been able to have beaten him. The AJ who fought for the IBF title, who fought Klitschko, who fought Parker... Ehhhh... At the end of the day it's two world-class punchers, but Bowe has the chin and Bowe has the superior skills.