BoxRec

I know this isn't exactly news, but what did everybody make of Big George's opinions on Lennox Lewis?

"Former heavyweight champion George Foreman has claimed Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight of all-time after beating Mike Tyson.
Before the Memphis clash Foreman claimed the Briton was the best heavyweight since Muhammad Ali.

But after his thrilling demolition of Iron Mike, Foreman, who was beaten by Muhammad Ali in the 'Rumble in the Jungle' in 1974, believes Lewis is the undisputed king of the ring.

"Lennox is beyond doubt the greatest heavyweight of all-time," Foreman said on Monday.

"He is not second any more, he is there at the top of the tree. It reminded me of a young George Foreman and an elusive Muhammad Ali - everything you want in a fighter."


Even as a big Lewis fan, I have to say that Big George is being more than a tad generous. I do believe that at times, Lewis may have been the BEST heavyweight the world has ever seen (I would favour him in his prime over any other heavy in their prime), but never the GREATEST. He may have beaten everyone in his era with the exception of Bowe who avoided him, but he never had a defining win over a great heavy in their prime. His best performances were against Ruddock, Golota, Grant, Tua, Rahman and a shot Tyson, all pretty ordinary fighters. If George had rated Lewis as the best ever, I don't think it would have been such a bad statement. But the greatest? No way!

The thing is, he's not exactly alone in his opinion among other repected figures in boxing:


Lewis' ranking alongside the heavyweight greats was also backed up by another fight legend - 'Smoking' Joe Frazier.

"Lennox is right up there with George Foreman and Muhammad Ali and he has proved himself the best heavyweight out there," Frazier said.

Lewis' trainer Emanuel Steward has often claimed that his fighter is the finest heavyweight to step into the ring since Ali dominated the division in the 1960s and 70s.

"I have known for a long time now that Lennox is the best heavyweight since Ali and the world should now acknowledge that," he said.

After the Tyson fight:

"I might just fade into oblivion," Tyson said. "I'm just fortunate Lewis didn't kill me in there. I don't know if I can ever beat him if he fights like that.

George rarely knows what in the hell he is saying, much less knowing what he's talking about. Actually, didn't the Tyson-Lewis fight occur about the same time that Hardee's came out with their gigantic burger? Foreman probably had that in his mind when he was thinking in terms of the greatest! Lewis is missing a few ingridents of an all-time great, first and foremost, a less than average chin, also too lacadasical far too often.

less than average chin

Not a great chin would be fair, but less than average I think that is a little harsh.

Only two defeats in 44 fights isnt bad when you consider he has been in with some heavy hitters,

Mason, won 37 (34 ko's)
Tucker won 58 (48 ko's)
Bruno won 40 (38 ko's)
Morrison won 46 (40 ko's)
Tyson won 50 (44 ko's)

Lewis the best since Ali??, not sure about that - but without a doubt the best since Holmes.

I think George Foreman got his brain damage claiming Lennox Lewis is the greatest by taking too many shots on his head, what about Foreman himself he was one of the greatest, and Foreman was the harder puncher than Lewis. Lewis is great by beating a shot Tyson and Holyfield doesn't mean that Lewis was the greatest. Lewis never won the award for fight of the year and most of his opponent besides Tyson and Holyfield are good, but they all end up like a nobody.

This is my point of view Lennox Lewis is great: yes
Legend: NOT!

This might be semantics to some, but I appreciate your separation of best and greatest.

Lewis, at his best, probably had the best array of skills and physical attributes: size (he's huge compared to golden age HWs), punch, fitness, athleticism, and - some might disagree - boxing skills.

As for being the greatest, that is a moniker earned by truly great performances, sometimes by fighters with less on paper. Holyfield is a great example.

Now I'm not arguing Joe Louis or Ali had less (they had all those things except Lewis' freakish size) but on paper you have to give Lennox a shot against any of these guys. I always say skill trumps size but the combination of Lewis' attributes puts him in any fight.

Greatest all time? No. Best of all time? Semantics, but hard to argue that any guy had more going into the ring. One of the all-time greatest/best? Sure, even when comparing his accomplishments in a less than stellar 90s field.

But arguing a guy had all the tools to be the greatest is kind of silly.

It was Foreman just being nice to the top guy at the moment. He also said prime for prime Lewis would beat him, and in his heart do you honestly believe he thinks that????

First of all I like Lennox Lewis, but you can't rank him beside Tyson, Holyfield, Foreman, and Holmes, you can't rank him above, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, or maybe Sonny Liston. You can rank him above Riddick Bowe that's a fact, because Lewis have more achievement than Bowe.

kovit wrote:First of all I like Lennox Lewis, but you can't rank him beside Tyson, Holyfield

Sure you can...it's the other guys on your list he'd be in trouble against...

It was Foreman just being nice to the top guy at the moment. He also said prime for prime Lewis would beat him, and in his heart do you honestly believe he thinks that????

I for one do. George Foreman see's Lennox Lewis as a man who is just as strong as him, just as powerful as him, only taller, and faster with a longer reach and better jab. The only big edge he has is the chin. George had a great chin, Lewis had an average one.

I think part of what makes Lewis seem so great in Foreman's eyes, is that he knew he could not beat him in the 90s. Of course this is really beside the point, as Foreman was past his best then, but of all the heavies in the world, Foreman wanted to fight Lewis the least.

As for prime Foreman vs prime Lewis, of course it could go either way. A TKO or KO to Foreman, or a KO, TKO or UD to Lewis. Lewis took a lot of big hits in his career without going down, from Tucker, Bruno, Holyfield, Tyson, Klitchko etc. George certainly would have stopped Lewis on one of his poorer nights, but on a good night, as I said; could go either way. Sad thing is we never saw Lewis at his best against a truly good fighter.

I have to give Lewis credit in that he never dodged anyone, he fought the best of the time and true he did fight some heavy hitters, but those heavy hitters never came close to landing anything heavy. Against, Ruddock, Grant and Golota, Lewis looked great. He went out and destroyed those guys just the way a heavyweight champion should, but he was way too sedate in too many high profile matches. It’s like I’ve read somewhere else, a heavyweight champion, particularly great heavyweight champs of the past have had the aura of the baddest man on the planet. I mean, I certainly would never have liked to meet a Sullivan, Dempsey, Liston, or Tyson in a dark alley and the thought of fighting any one is actually frightening, however I would fight Lewis, even though I know that he would knock my head off. The great heavyweights have never been knocked out with one shot, it took an accumulation of pretty heavy punishment to stop the best and although the punches that Rahman and McCall landed were good, they were not classic one punch jobs. I might get some flack for this, but I think that the pre-1989 Tyson would have destroyed Lewis!

I think that the pre-1989 Tyson would have destroyed Lewis!

Yes, if it were the pre 1989 Lewis he was fighting. Tyson would have knocked him out. If they had fought at any time after Tyson got out of jail, Lewis would have won, there's no doubt about that in my mind. If we are talking prime for prime, that makes it a lot harder. Neither men have wins over top heavies in their primes. It would have to go to Lewis by KO, TKO or UD, or Tyson by TKO or KO. No way could Tyson ever outbox Lewis over the distance.

PeeKay wrote:

It was Foreman just being nice to the top guy at the moment. He also said prime for prime Lewis would beat him, and in his heart do you honestly believe he thinks that????

I for one do. George Foreman see's Lennox Lewis as a man who is just as strong as him, just as powerful as him, only taller, and faster with a longer reach and better jab. The only big edge he has is the chin. George had a great chin, Lewis had an average one.

I think part of what makes Lewis seem so great in Foreman's eyes, is that he knew he could not beat him in the 90s. Of course this is really beside the point, as Foreman was past his best then, but of all the heavies in the world, Foreman wanted to fight Lewis the least.

As for prime Foreman vs prime Lewis, of course it could go either way. A TKO or KO to Foreman, or a KO, TKO or UD to Lewis. Lewis took a lot of big hits in his career without going down, from Tucker, Bruno, Holyfield, Tyson, Klitchko etc. George certainly would have stopped Lewis on one of his poorer nights, but on a good night, as I said; could go either way. Sad thing is we never saw Lewis at his best against a truly good fighter.

Lewis didn't go down but was rocked against all of those guys save Tyson, but you can add Briggs and Mercer to that list as well. No way does Lewis ever beat Foreman-Foreman would outjab him and hurt him severely. Lewis never faced anything CLOSE to a prime Foreman in his career. When has he ever even faced a body puncher like Foreman?? An old Holyfield??? And we know his chin couldn't withstand one of those George uppercuts. I think a fairer matchup is Foreman 1992-Lewis. I favor Lennox but he'd have to be on top of his game . . . . .

barry wrote: It’s like I’ve read somewhere else, a heavyweight champion, particularly great heavyweight champs of the past have had the aura of the baddest man on the planet. I mean, I certainly would never have liked to meet a Sullivan, Dempsey, Liston, or Tyson in a dark alley and the thought of fighting any one is actually frightening, however I would fight Lewis, even though I know that he would knock my head off.

I think Lewis comes up short on an all time top ten list, but he was still good enough to be in the next ten...I also think many people (not me) don't rate him as high as they may have had Lewis been more 'rough around the edges' so to speak...If you threaten to eat children (like Tyson), or just stare at people like you intend to kill them (like Liston), you get an 'aura of the baddest man on the planet' from the media...if you speak with an English accent, and do commercials drinking tea with your pinky raised while tipping the teacup...then you miss out on that 'aura'...but he was still quite good, beat everyone he ever faced...and if he's not top ten material he would certainly be a competitive match against many of the top ten...Gene Tunney is another guy who didn't have that certain 'aura', and I believe suffers in the all time rankings because of it...it's almost as if you have to be protrayed as 'mean' to be a legitimate heavyweight champion...Lewis beat several of those 'mean' types, that says something right there, doesn't it???....and, as far as knocking your head off, he probably could...so don't challenge him or anything...just let him drink his tea...

guv says:

Lewis the best since Ali??, not sure about that - but without a doubt the best since Holmes.

thank you guvnor for not letting that remark go by without mentioning larry holmes, if you hadn't of done it i would have. i'll add mike tyson to that list. if you count lewis ko of tyson as a tribute to his greatness, than you have to count danny williams as an all time great too!

Ali and Lewis both beat the most Champions, 15 and 14? Lewis virtually beat every man he faced, Lewis was more or less prime throughout his career and thus the most consistent "great".
Lewis 'could' take a punch if his opponents were lucky enough to land a punch let alone a combo, Tyson and 4 fighters in their prime in Klitschko, Bruno, Briggs and Grant all hurt Lennox early doors, he came back and obliterated them.
Many say of all the greats Lewis had the best rounds fought/won ratio.
Lewis was one of a few greats to beat all the other greats of his era.
For me it's a no-brainer, Lewis is the GOAT.
Ali pushes him close but Lewis never lost past the 5th round and Ali didn't put many greats to bed before the 6th.
Ali's showmanship was great as was prime Tyson's bob/weave/uppercut but Lewis' atomic overhand right, piercing jab and uppercut all of which he could land from all sorts or distances and angles puts him far above the rest, especially when juxtaposed with his unsettling laid back ring manner.
Some of the opponents other greats were making their name off could have easily been killed by Lewis if he unleased a full blown uppercut thrown in anger. You saw what his uppercuts did to Klitschko's face, you saw what his overhand right did to Tyson's head, his huge neck kept it on!!
Not many greats speak as clearly as Lewis, behave as good or make as much sense, it sounds like he never took a shot, testament to his defence.
He loves his mam, adopted countries and would never hurt the sport. A true great across the board.

I actually believe, that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time indeed. He was a near-perfect boxer-puncher, extremely skillful, intelligent, he had an excellent resume also.

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Jun 2018, 08:15 I actually believe, that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time indeed. He was a near-perfect boxer-puncher, extremely skillful, intelligent, he had an excellent resume also.

I would have liked to see him in a rivalry with other great fighters to get a more accurate assessment where he stood.

The closest he came to a true rivalry was with Holyfield but that was an older Holyfield past his best days.

I would have expected to see Lewis handle a slipping Holyfield more handily.

He won the first fight convincingly but didn't take it to the aging, listless Holyfield the way a GOAT should have.

He should have knocked the eff out if Evander. Instead Lewis slowed in the late rounds and let Holy hang around until the end.

The second fight was much more competitive and therefore disappointing concerning Lewis' performance.

Again, if Lewis was the best heavy ever, he should have stopped Holyfield.

Based on those performances against a past great, Lewis would really have needed to step up his game and intensity, if he was to ever have defeated other ATG heavies in their primes.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 11:19

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Jun 2018, 08:15 I actually believe, that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time indeed. He was a near-perfect boxer-puncher, extremely skillful, intelligent, he had an excellent resume also.

I would have liked to see him in a rivalry with other great fighters to get a more accurate assessment where he stood.

The closest he came to a true rivalry was with Holyfield but that was an older Holyfield past his best days.

I would have expected to see Lewis handle a slipping Holyfield more handily.

He won the first fight convincingly but didn't take it to the aging, listless Holyfield the way a GOAT should have.

He should have knocked the eff out if Evander. Instead Lewis slowed in the late rounds and let Holy hang around until the end.

The second fight was much more competitive and therefore disappointing concerning Lewis' performance.

Again, if Lewis was the best heavy ever, he should have stopped Holyfield.

Based on those performances against a past great, Lewis would really have needed to step up his game and intensity, if he was to ever have defeated other ATG heavies in their primes.

You box in that way, you opponent allow you to do it. If he boxed like that against past prime Holyfield, this doesn't mean, that he wouldn't have been sharper against prime Holyfield. In their actual fight there was no need for Lennox to be sharper. Prime Evander could push Lewis to the limit. It could have looked like Lewis-Mercer fight, which, by the way, I find strange to be called controversial, cause it was competetive, but pretty clear in Lewis favor.

Holyfield anyway was still there, he appeared to be shot right after Lewis. So why did Lewis need that intensity? You can't blame the boxer for winning convincingly despite not stopping an opponent. Lewis can be compared to Mayweather here. Mayweather didn't have those rivalries also, btw, and defeated his greatest foe after his best times. But Lewis in his late stages still demonstrated much more masterful offence, than Mayweather did. So Lewis was always demonstrating elite level well-rounded boxing, even after he had become more rational overall with Steward.

i always thought that george foreman said
many weird things.

man wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 12:21 i always thought that george foreman said
many weird things.

Well remember he was drugged in Zaire.

Maybe the effects never wore off.

Lennox was excellent but George did talk some crap at times.

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 12:18

SenorPipino wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 11:19

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Jun 2018, 08:15 I actually believe, that Lewis is the greatest heavyweight of all time indeed. He was a near-perfect boxer-puncher, extremely skillful, intelligent, he had an excellent resume also.

I would have liked to see him in a rivalry with other great fighters to get a more accurate assessment where he stood.

The closest he came to a true rivalry was with Holyfield but that was an older Holyfield past his best days.

I would have expected to see Lewis handle a slipping Holyfield more handily.

He won the first fight convincingly but didn't take it to the aging, listless Holyfield the way a GOAT should have.

He should have knocked the eff out if Evander. Instead Lewis slowed in the late rounds and let Holy hang around until the end.

The second fight was much more competitive and therefore disappointing concerning Lewis' performance.

Again, if Lewis was the best heavy ever, he should have stopped Holyfield.

Based on those performances against a past great, Lewis would really have needed to step up his game and intensity, if he was to ever have defeated other ATG heavies in their primes.

You box in that way, you opponent allow you to do it. If he boxed like that against past prime Holyfield, this doesn't mean, that he wouldn't have been sharper against prime Holyfield. In their actual fight there was no need for Lennox to be sharper. Prime Evander could push Lewis to the limit. It could have looked like Lewis-Mercer fight, which, by the way, I find strange to be called controversial, cause it was competetive, but pretty clear in Lewis favor.

Holyfield anyway was still there, he appeared to be shot right after Lewis. So why did Lewis need that intensity? You can't blame the boxer for winning convincingly despite not stopping an opponent. Lewis can be compared to Mayweather here. Mayweather didn't have those rivalries also, btw, and defeated his greatest foe after his best times. But Lewis in his late stages still demonstrated much more masterful offence, than Mayweather did. So Lewis was always demonstrating elite level well-rounded boxing, even after he had become more rational overall with Steward.

He needed that intensity to prevent judges from robbing him again in the rematch. If judges from the first figt were working on the rematch, Holyfield would win it easily since the secons fight was extremely close unlike the first one. Lewis himself said millions of times on the different pressers and interviews that he will stop Holyfield in the rematch and judges won't be able to rob him. He never even come close to stopping Holyfield - in fact, the only fighter who was hurt in the rematch was Lewis, in the seventh round.

Flashaholics wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 21:19 Ali and Lewis both beat the most Champions, 15 and 14? Lewis virtually beat every man he faced, Lewis was more or less prime throughout his career and thus the most consistent "great".
Lewis 'could' take a punch if his opponents were lucky enough to land a punch let alone a combo, Tyson and 4 fighters in their prime in Klitschko, Bruno, Briggs and Grant all hurt Lennox early doors, he came back and obliterated them.
Many say of all the greats Lewis had the best rounds fought/won ratio.
Lewis was one of a few greats to beat all the other greats of his era.
For me it's a no-brainer, Lewis is the GOAT.
Ali pushes him close but Lewis never lost past the 5th round and Ali didn't put many greats to bed before the 6th.
Ali's showmanship was great as was prime Tyson's bob/weave/uppercut but Lewis' atomic overhand right, piercing jab and uppercut all of which he could land from all sorts or distances and angles puts him far above the rest, especially when juxtaposed with his unsettling laid back ring manner.
Some of the opponents other greats were making their name off could have easily been killed by Lewis if he unleased a full blown uppercut thrown in anger. You saw what his uppercuts did to Klitschko's face, you saw what his overhand right did to Tyson's head, his huge neck kept it on!!
Not many greats speak as clearly as Lewis, behave as good or make as much sense, it sounds like he never took a shot, testament to his defence.
He loves his mam, adopted countries and would never hurt the sport. A true great across the board.

For me it's a no brainer that Larry Holmes was way better than Lennox Lewis. And I rank Holmes at #3 after Ali and Louis.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 13:48 He needed that intensity to prevent judges from robbing him again in the rematch. If judges from the first figt were working on the rematch, Holyfield would win it easily since the secons fight was extremely close unlike the first one. Lewis himself said millions of times on the different pressers and interviews that he will stop Holyfield in the rematch and judges won't be able to rob him. He never even come close to stopping Holyfield - in fact, the only fighter who was hurt in the rematch was Lewis, in the seventh round.

That can be the point, but Lewis' own words about his plans to KO Holyfield shouldn't be taken so seriously. Every boxer talks confident about himself and that's normal. You must be like that or you can turn out to be prepared not enough mentally. Anyway Lewis won both those fights clearly.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑27 Jun 2018, 13:51 For me it's a no brainer that Larry Holmes was way better than Lennox Lewis. And I rank Holmes at #3 after Ali and Louis.

I'd say, this is arguable. Sure, Holmes is somewhere in the very top, but despite his longer reign it's questionable, whose opposition was better, his or Lewis'. Furthermore, Holmes had more controversial moments during his career.