BoxRec

This debate always intrigues me. Some fighters get knocked out but never get labelled as having a glass jaw yet others get knocked out and thats all people say about them. So what's your definition of a glass jaw?

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 11:53 This debate always intrigues me. Some fighters get knocked out but never get labelled as having a glass jaw yet others get knocked out and thats all people say about them. So what's your definition of a glass jaw?

Amir Khan

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 11:53 This debate always intrigues me. Some fighters get knocked out but never get labelled as having a glass jaw yet others get knocked out and thats all people say about them. So what's your definition of a glass jaw?

I am not sure how to define the term, but I believe there should be a distinction made between fighters who get knocked down and get back up when compared to fighters who don't.

It's popular to say Joe Louis had a weak chin, but save for the Schmeling fight where he took a terrific beating for 12 rounds he always got back up. (I am discounting the Marciano fight for being way pass his prime, and even then get got up from the first knock down and that was from a Marciano punch.) Yet people always say Louis had a weak chin because he went down.

Does Tommy Hearns have a glass jaw because he was knocked out by Hagler, Barkley, and Leonard? I think not!

I think a 'glass jaw' should be reserved for fighters who can't get by the early rounds against even middling fighters. They are few and far between and don't last long.

James Tillis is a strange one. Stopped 11 times in 22 defeats and two of those defeats were in the 1st round. On paper you could look at those stats and think he was a knock-over. Yet he beat Shavers (10 rounds), went the distance with Tyson (10 rounds) and went the distance with Weaver (15 rounds). I can't say I've heard anyone say Tillis was an easy knockout but other fighters with a lot less stoppage losses are called chinny.

Hearns is a ridiculous claim you see made. For me it's a Duane bobick. Someone stopped every time they stepped up. In the grand scheme no fighter really has one. Certain fights Bert Cooper looked iron chinned and he was probably stopped a dozen times. Conditioning and desire are a bigger part of taking punishment than just an ability to take shots. Ability too, I have a world class chin, but I'd still be getting starched by kovalev and Stevenson.

A glass jaw........defined.


Ok....now everyone move along.....break it up.......nothing more to see here.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 18:58 Hearns is a ridiculous claim you see made. For me it's a Duane bobick. Someone stopped every time they stepped up. In the grand scheme no fighter really has one. Certain fights Bert Cooper looked iron chinned and he was probably stopped a dozen times. Conditioning and desire are a bigger part of taking punishment than just an ability to take shots. Ability too, I have a world class chin, but I'd still be getting starched by kovalev and Stevenson.

Livingstone Bramble one stated that if he could get by the first two rounds he was no longer worried about getting knocked down, (he was stopped late in fights but usually by TKO) but felt he was suspect early in a fight. Your last line made it sound like you are a fighter, do you feel that you become less likely to go down as a fight goes on; I wonder if fighters acclimate to being punched as a fight goes on?

Joe Louis seemed to have that tendency, to be chinny early in fight but then adjust as the fight went on.

For Quick Tillis and Roy Jones, and Floyd....who all had great defense skills, doesn't it just indicate that they may have needed those skills? I mean things went well for Tillis with his skillset against Shavers.......so it just goes back to styles make fights. And Glass Jaws? they are just the legacy of one's mistakes. Many of which were happenstance.

Tillis perhaps being the most interesting study that might allow for some push back.

And Hearns....well those who managed to beat him were pretty skillful for the most part, and had a pretty good collection of KO'd scalps above and beyond just Tommy's.

And Roy's evolution seemed to be connected to his weight gain and loss. Not sure even that can be chalked up to his "exposure"......thought it's reasonably a debate point.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 19:40 For Quick Tillis and Roy Jones, and Floyd....who all had great defense skills, doesn't it just indicate that they may have needed those skills? I mean things went well for Tillis with his skillset against Shavers.......so it just goes back to styles make fights. And Glass Jaws? they are just the legacy of one's mistakes. Many of which were happenstance.

Tillis perhaps being the most interesting study that might allow for some push back.

And Hearns....well those who managed to beat him were pretty skillful for the most part, and had a pretty good collection of KO'd scalps above and beyond just Tommy's.

And Roy's evolution seemed to be connected to his weight gain and loss. Not sure even that can be chalked up to his "exposure"......thought it's reasonably a debate point.

Yes I think a lot is to do with defence, as well as conditioning and will to win. If you're out of shape you're more likely to be hurt. If you are a defensive type fighter, or move a lot, chances are you won't get hit as much as a come forward type fighter. So yes styles play a part too. With the HWs especially I think anyone can be knocked out if caught properly and you don't need to be a great fighter to pack a punch. All of Tysons losses were by stoppage yet he actually took a tremendous shot, in the latter years his conditioning, head movement and desire just weren't there.

APerno wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 19:10

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 18:58 Hearns is a ridiculous claim you see made. For me it's a Duane bobick. Someone stopped every time they stepped up. In the grand scheme no fighter really has one. Certain fights Bert Cooper looked iron chinned and he was probably stopped a dozen times. Conditioning and desire are a bigger part of taking punishment than just an ability to take shots. Ability too, I have a world class chin, but I'd still be getting starched by kovalev and Stevenson.

Livingstone Bramble one stated that if he could get by the first two rounds he was no longer worried about getting knocked down, (he was stopped late in fights but usually by TKO) but felt he was suspect early in a fight. Your last line made it sound like you are a fighter, do you feel that you become less likely to go down as a fight goes on; I wonder if fighters acclimate to being punched as a fight goes on?

Joe Louis seemed to have that tendency, to be chinny early in fight but then adjust as the fight went on.

No, I had a few amateur fights when I was young but never more than sparring a few pros as an adult.i never felt a punch in or outside the ring. I've been kicked in the face about seven or eight times with steel toed boots and spit out a tooth getting up at a count of one though!

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 19:40 For Quick Tillis and Roy Jones, and Floyd....who all had great defense skills, doesn't it just indicate that they may have needed those skills? I mean things went well for Tillis with his skillset against Shavers.......so it just goes back to styles make fights. And Glass Jaws? they are just the legacy of one's mistakes. Many of which were happenstance.

Tillis perhaps being the most interesting study that might allow for some push back.

And Hearns....well those who managed to beat him were pretty skillful for the most part, and had a pretty good collection of KO'd scalps above and beyond just Tommy's.

And Roy's evolution seemed to be connected to his weight gain and loss. Not sure even that can be chalked up to his "exposure"......thought it's reasonably a debate point.

Floyd? He was hurt twice in his career and was kicking the shit out of both guys that did it before the end of the same round.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Nov 2018, 02:49

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 19:40 For Quick Tillis and Roy Jones, and Floyd....who all had great defense skills, doesn't it just indicate that they may have needed those skills? I mean things went well for Tillis with his skillset against Shavers.......so it just goes back to styles make fights. And Glass Jaws? they are just the legacy of one's mistakes. Many of which were happenstance.

Tillis perhaps being the most interesting study that might allow for some push back.

And Hearns....well those who managed to beat him were pretty skillful for the most part, and had a pretty good collection of KO'd scalps above and beyond just Tommy's.

And Roy's evolution seemed to be connected to his weight gain and loss. Not sure even that can be chalked up to his "exposure"......thought it's reasonably a debate point.

Floyd? He was hurt twice in his career and was kicking the poo out of both guys that did it before the end of the same round.

I assumed he meant Floyd Patterson

Controversial wrote: ↑19 Nov 2018, 04:06

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Nov 2018, 02:49

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑18 Nov 2018, 19:40 For Quick Tillis and Roy Jones, and Floyd....who all had great defense skills, doesn't it just indicate that they may have needed those skills? I mean things went well for Tillis with his skillset against Shavers.......so it just goes back to styles make fights. And Glass Jaws? they are just the legacy of one's mistakes. Many of which were happenstance.

Tillis perhaps being the most interesting study that might allow for some push back.

And Hearns....well those who managed to beat him were pretty skillful for the most part, and had a pretty good collection of KO'd scalps above and beyond just Tommy's.

And Roy's evolution seemed to be connected to his weight gain and loss. Not sure even that can be chalked up to his "exposure"......thought it's reasonably a debate point.

Floyd? He was hurt twice in his career and was kicking the poo out of both guys that did it before the end of the same round.

I assumed he meant Floyd Patterson

Perhaps he did, though he wasn't great defensively. Makes more sense though.

Someone who does not take a hard punch very well.

Yep I meant Patterson.

And Alp......landed punches are like fingerprints....no two the same. There's a lot of nuanced complexity in this conversation.

It's much easier in my opinion to fetter out the Chuvalo's, Ali's and David Tua's of the world....those with great resistance, to punches than those who have through possible happenstance been given a reputation to me more fragile.

You have to look for patterns. Were they hurt a lot? Obviously you have to take the level competition into consideration. Someone with a good chin can unexpectedly get hurt by someone you would not think would be able to do it. It might have been the one time where the punch just happened to land flush.
However, if it's happening over and over, that is telling.

And I think most of us are being relative. Like Patterson for example, certainly had a better chin than most 6 and 8 round fighters obviously. But for a fighter of his ability, his chin was not good.