BoxRec

actjac wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 19:52 There have been some great boxers from the U.K. in recent generations.. . . .One of my favorites was Barry McGuigan. . . .As far as heavyweights Lennox Lewis and Anthony Joshua are among the all time greats and even Tyson Fury may make it in that category. Plus going back there was the beloved Henry Cooper and Frank Bruno. . . . .But WHY OH WHY do fans continuously cling to and hang on to David "My Toe Hurts" Haye?. . . . British fans will speak with reverence at the mention of his name and insert him into every conversation. . .. I suggest a tournament with Haye, David Price, Audley Harrison and Derek Chisora to determine the worst example of current British heavyweights.

ILikeBeer wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 06:49

actjac wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 19:52 There have been some great boxers from the U.K. in recent generations.. . . .One of my favorites was Barry McGuigan. . . .As far as heavyweights Lennox Lewis and Anthony Joshua are among the all time greats and even Tyson Fury may make it in that category. Plus going back there was the beloved Henry Cooper and Frank Bruno. . . . .But WHY OH WHY do fans continuously cling to and hang on to David "My Toe Hurts" Haye?. . . . British fans will speak with reverence at the mention of his name and insert him into every conversation. . .. I suggest a tournament with Haye, David Price, Audley Harrison and Derek Chisora to determine the worst example of current British heavyweights.

I've seen lots of anti-Haye talk on this website.

actjac wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 19:52 There have been some great boxers from the U.K. in recent generations.. . . .One of my favorites was Barry McGuigan. . . .As far as heavyweights Lennox Lewis and Anthony Joshua are among the all time greats and even Tyson Fury may make it in that category. Plus going back there was the beloved Henry Cooper and Frank Bruno. . . . .But WHY OH WHY do fans continuously cling to and hang on to David "My Toe Hurts" Haye?. . . . British fans will speak with reverence at the mention of his name and insert him into every conversation. . .. I suggest a tournament with Haye, David Price, Audley Harrison and Derek Chisora to determine the worst example of current British heavyweights.

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 08:53 Rising through the ranks haye was as exciting a fighter as they come. I remember fondly seeing him fight on the bbc, often on Audrey Harrison or Carl Froch bills. He was dynamite . Just unfortunate to be caught in that no mans land physically between cruiser and heavy.

Even if he’d stayed injury free, he didn’t really have the style to beat Joshua or wilder, and after last Saturday probably fury too.

rhino222 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 14:13

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 08:53 Rising through the ranks haye was as exciting a fighter as they come. I remember fondly seeing him fight on the bbc, often on Audrey Harrison or Carl Froch bills. He was dynamite . Just unfortunate to be caught in that no mans land physically between cruiser and heavy.

Even if he’d stayed injury free, he didn’t really have the style to beat Joshua or wilder, and after last Saturday probably fury too.

i disagree......peak haye would have put wilder to sleep in my opinion. haye at his peak was elusive and very very sharp on the counter. wilder misses too often and then is wide open.

look at the sparring between the 2. with small gloves on wilder would have been more than wobbled.

RKY wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 00:25 Haye is one of the finest boxers the UK has ever produced, greater than Hatton, but not quite Calzaghe. Until Usyk came along he was the 2nd best Cruiser ever, trailing only to Holyfield. Guys like Joshua & Fury gave some way to go imo to reach the kind of status Haye has.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:01

RKY wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 00:25 Haye is one of the finest boxers the UK has ever produced, greater than Hatton, but not quite Calzaghe. Until Usyk came along he was the 2nd best Cruiser ever, trailing only to Holyfield. Guys like Joshua & Fury gave some way to go imo to reach the kind of status Haye has.

For real? Hatton had a more accomplished career and Fury has done better than him overall IMO. Haye's best win is Mormeck, both Tszyu and Klitschko are better wins than that one. Hatton and Fury became the top dogs in much better divisions.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:15

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:01

RKY wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 00:25 Haye is one of the finest boxers the UK has ever produced, greater than Hatton, but not quite Calzaghe. Until Usyk came along he was the 2nd best Cruiser ever, trailing only to Holyfield. Guys like Joshua & Fury gave some way to go imo to reach the kind of status Haye has.

For real? Hatton had a more accomplished career and Fury has done better than him overall IMO. Haye's best win is Mormeck, both Tszyu and Klitschko are better wins than that one. Hatton and Fury became the top dogs in much better divisions.

Some revisionism going on there. Hatton beat Tszyu in 2005. Floyd was at 10 stone in 2005 (beat Gatti in potentially a career best performance). Cotto also stopped chop chop in 05 for the WBO. Tougher division... yes, by miles, but Hatton being top dog!? He never was.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:25

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:15

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:01

For real? Hatton had a more accomplished career and Fury has done better than him overall IMO. Haye's best win is Mormeck, both Tszyu and Klitschko are better wins than that one. Hatton and Fury became the top dogs in much better divisions.

Some revisionism going on there. Hatton beat Tszyu in 2005. Floyd was at 10 stone in 2005 (beat Gatti in potentially a career best performance). Cotto also stopped chop chop in 05 for the WBO. Tougher division... yes, by miles, but Hatton being top dog!? He never was.

Nonsense. Hatton beat the main man at his weight then tried to secure a fight with the best fighter in the world and took the necessary steps to do so. The only revisionism that goes on with the win over Tszyu is that people try to argue Kostya was a done deal when he was actually in very good form and had looked a very good, more two-fisted fighter in the his previous fight. Hatton became the main man at the weight with that win, no one disputed that then or now. Hatton had a better career than Haye, and I say that as someone who used to be a big fan of Haye.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:28

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:25

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:15

Some revisionism going on there. Hatton beat Tszyu in 2005. Floyd was at 10 stone in 2005 (beat Gatti in potentially a career best performance). Cotto also stopped chop chop in 05 for the WBO. Tougher division... yes, by miles, but Hatton being top dog!? He never was.

Nonsense. Hatton beat the main man at his weight then tried to secure a fight with the best fighter in the world and took the necessary steps to do so. The only revisionism that goes on with the win over Tszyu is that people try to argue Kostya was a done deal when he was actually in very good form and had looked a very good, more two-fisted fighter in the his previous fight. Hatton became the main man at the weight with that win, no one disputed that then or now. Hatton had a better career than Haye, and I say that as someone who used to be a big fan of Haye.

You're talking rubbish.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:30

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:28

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:25

Nonsense. Hatton beat the main man at his weight then tried to secure a fight with the best fighter in the world and took the necessary steps to do so. The only revisionism that goes on with the win over Tszyu is that people try to argue Kostya was a done deal when he was actually in very good form and had looked a very good, more two-fisted fighter in the his previous fight. Hatton became the main man at the weight with that win, no one disputed that then or now. Hatton had a better career than Haye, and I say that as someone who used to be a big fan of Haye.

You're talking rubbish.

Nah, you just can't articulate an argument. I was following boxing in 2005 so have absolutely no confusion about this one.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:41

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:30

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:28

You're talking rubbish.

Nah, you just can't articulate an argument. I was following boxing in 2005 so have absolutely no confusion about this one.

So in the same month Hatton wins the IBF from Tszyu... Floyd wins the WBC from Gattii (fmj also rated #1 p4p by Ring), & the year previous Cotto won the WBO and had already made 2 defences vs Bailey & chop chop, winning all 3 by stoppage.

Even if you were silly enough to think Hatton was genuinely the best fighter at that weight class in 05, we know now with hindsight he wasn't. This isn't the case for Haye, we know he was undeniably the best Cruiser of his era

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:54

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:41

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:30

Nah, you just can't articulate an argument. I was following boxing in 2005 so have absolutely no confusion about this one.

So in the same month Hatton wins the IBF from Tszyu... Floyd wins the WBC from Gattii (fmj also rated #1 p4p by Ring), & the year previous Cotto won the WBO and had already made 2 defences vs Bailey & chop chop, winning all 3 by stoppage.

Even if you were silly enough to think Hatton was genuinely the best fighter at that weight class in 05, we know now with hindsight he wasn't. This isn't the case for Haye, we know he was undeniably the best Cruiser of his era

Gatti picked up the WBC title that had been vacated by Tszyu and then lost it to Floyd after an undistinguished run, who moved up in weight that same year so wasn’t a concern at light-welterweight. Cotto fought no one anywhere near the calibre of Tszyu in 2015. Hatton became the dominant name at 140 with that win, I shouldn’t even be explaining this to you.

Flip it. Steve Cunningham held the IBF when Haye beat Mormeck, Enzo the WBO, but that doesn’t mean Haye wasn’t the number one in his division after Mormeck. He beat the man at the weight.

As I said, no one at the time disputed that Hatton became the main man at 140. The main dispute was whether he should have fought Witter, he shouldn’t have, and not that Floyd’s single win at the weight that year erased what was a better win for Hatton over Tszyu.

This meeting is adjourned.

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 07:02

MF DOOM wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:54

RKY wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 06:41

So in the same month Hatton wins the IBF from Tszyu... Floyd wins the WBC from Gattii (fmj also rated #1 p4p by Ring), & the year previous Cotto won the WBO and had already made 2 defences vs Bailey & chop chop, winning all 3 by stoppage.

Even if you were silly enough to think Hatton was genuinely the best fighter at that weight class in 05, we know now with hindsight he wasn't. This isn't the case for Haye, we know he was undeniably the best Cruiser of his era

Gatti picked up the WBC title that had been vacated by Tszyu and then lost it to Floyd after an undistinguished run, who moved up in weight that same year so wasn’t a concern at light-welterweight. Cotto fought no one anywhere near the calibre of Tszyu in 2015. Hatton became the dominant name at 140 with that win, I shouldn’t even be explaining this to you.

Flip it. Steve Cunningham held the IBF when Haye beat Mormeck, Enzo the WBO, but that doesn’t mean Haye wasn’t the number one in his division after Mormeck. He beat the man at the weight.

As I said, no one at the time disputed that Hatton became the main man at 140. The main dispute was whether he should have fought Witter, he shouldn’t have, and not that Floyd’s single win at the weight that year erased what was a better win for Hatton over Tszyu.

This meeting is adjourned.

Beating a brink-of-retirement Tsyzu is still a better opponent than Gatti, but Gatti was Floyd's 3rd win at 140lb in the space of 13 months.

What exactly is your argument here - that Hatton bagged a better name for his CV in 05 than his fellow title-holders Floyd & Miguel? Fine.

But I'm saying Hatton wasn't the best ten stone fighter in 05, period. He wasn't even top 2. Argue otherwise.