BoxRec

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 06:16**

With Eubank vs. DeGale coming up in the next few weeks, I begin to wonder will Eubank ever be able to reach his potential. I believe that Eubank wins this if he fights smart, but knowing Eubank and his ignorance it could easily go the other way. From what we saw in both the BJS and Groves fight, he was nowhere near their caliber but I think DeGale will be a good challenge and if he takes this fight seriously then it is possible for him to climb the ladder in the SMW/MW division. Curious to see what everyone else thinks, let me know!

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 09:16**

No.

He's a fit lad but doesn't have the boxing ability to be world class

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 09:41**

I think may have.

All his previous fights have been fought from his great fitness, speed and some skill. (And same belief!)

As we all know BJS and Groves found him out.

This time, with an actul trainer on board, combined with his dedication..

TKO later rounds, after Degale is fully gassed out. Round 8-10 I’d say.

I like the guy. I’d like him more if he wasn’t such a bloody poser and show-off.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 09:42**

I think he'll claim he is, if he beats DeGale. I would say rightfully so but DeGale has been on the slide for quite a while so touch and go re 'World Class'
I hate to say it but I think Eubank will keep going for the full 12 and DeGale will be lazy in a few rounds (as he always does - fitness more than lazy I'm sure), thus giving the fight to Chris.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 09:44**

Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class. He’d likely be considered by most to be a fringe top-ten rated fighter at 168lbs or 160lbs. The Brit isn’t a legitimate super-middleweight though and by his own admission, he needs to eat a lot and purposely gain weight to compete effectively at 168lbs. He’d be more effective campaigning at 160bs.

I guess the real question is whether Eubank Jr. can improve his current status in the sport and become a legitimate world champion (a top-four ranked fighter in his weight class).

And I personally doubt he’ll be able to do this. He’s about six months away from his 30th birthday and he doesn’t appear to listen or trust the usually sound advice given to him by his team.

His new trainer, Nate Vasquez, has a very decent reputation, but he’s no miracle worker. It’s probably too late in Eubank Jr’s career to significantly improve his boxing ability and footwork. He might be able to steer the Brit towards scoring an upset victory over one of the world champions though. That’s probably the most that Eubank Jr. can hope for really.

People don’t seem to like Chris, but they shouldn’t allow their feelings to become oblivious of his talents. He may be no world-beater, but he’s not a journeyman either.

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 10:51**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class. He’d likely be considered by most to be a fringe top-ten rated fighter at 168lbs or 160lbs. The Brit isn’t a legitimate super-middleweight though and by his own admission, he needs to eat a lot and purposely gain weight to compete effectively at 168lbs. He’d be more effective campaigning at 160bs.

I guess the real question is whether Eubank Jr. can improve his current status in the sport and become a legitimate world champion (a top-four ranked fighter in his weight class).

And I personally doubt he’ll be able to do this. He’s about six months away from his 30th birthday and he doesn’t appear to listen or trust the usually sound advice given to him by his team.

His new trainer, Nate Vasquez, has a very decent reputation, but he’s no miracle worker. It’s probably too late in Eubank Jr’s career to significantly improve his boxing ability and footwork. He might be able to steer the Brit towards scoring an upset victory over one of the world champions though. That’s probably the most that Eubank Jr. can hope for really.

People don’t seem to like Chris, but they shouldn’t allow their feelings to become oblivious of his talents. He may be no world-beater, but he’s not a journeyman either.

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’

If you aren't a world beater but not a jouneyman, then you are in somewhere in the middle. That can't be world class then?

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:02**

Does a duck have the potential to be a pony? Some of the ridiculous questions on this board are hilarious

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:08**

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:02 Does a duck have the potential to be a pony? Some of the ridiculous questions on this board are hilarious

CEJ had a chance when he was younger and never learned. His time is past.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:09**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class....

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’

yeah, so apart from his s*** defence and horrible footwork, and an inability to throw a jab, and sundry other technical deficiencies, he's world class, yeah?

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:24**

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:08
danconnollyeire wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:02 Does a duck have the potential to be a pony? Some of the ridiculous questions on this board are hilarious
CEJ had a chance when he was younger and never learned. His time is past.

Yeah I think this sums it up succinctly

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:26**

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:24
oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:08
danconnollyeire wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:02 Does a duck have the potential to be a pony? Some of the ridiculous questions on this board are hilarious
CEJ had a chance when he was younger and never learned. His time is past.
Yeah I think this sums it up succinctly

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:32**

Roars Like Me wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 10:51
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class. He’d likely be considered by most to be a fringe top-ten rated fighter at 168lbs or 160lbs. The Brit isn’t a legitimate super-middleweight though and by his own admission, he needs to eat a lot and purposely gain weight to compete effectively at 168lbs. He’d be more effective campaigning at 160bs.

I guess the real question is whether Eubank Jr. can improve his current status in the sport and become a legitimate world champion (a top-four ranked fighter in his weight class).

And I personally doubt he’ll be able to do this. He’s about six months away from his 30th birthday and he doesn’t appear to listen or trust the usually sound advice given to him by his team.

His new trainer, Nate Vasquez, has a very decent reputation, but he’s no miracle worker. It’s probably too late in Eubank Jr’s career to significantly improve his boxing ability and footwork. He might be able to steer the Brit towards scoring an upset victory over one of the world champions though. That’s probably the most that Eubank Jr. can hope for really.

People don’t seem to like Chris, but they shouldn’t allow their feelings to become oblivious of his talents. He may be no world-beater, but he’s not a journeyman either.

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
If you aren't a world beater but not a jouneyman, then you are in somewhere in the middle. That can't be world class then?

In my mind, any fighter that is deemed as being rated amongst the top-ten in their respective division, is world-class. Chris Eubank is almost certainly a top-ten world-rated fighter (as per The RING, ESPN, WBC, WBA, WBO etc.).

I shouldn't need to provide a definition for the phrase "world beater", since it's self-explanatory.

It seems your weak attempt to find flaws in my thoughts has only served to inadvertently highlight your own lack of comprehension of the written form of the English language.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:34**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:32
Roars Like Me wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 10:51
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class. He’d likely be considered by most to be a fringe top-ten rated fighter at 168lbs or 160lbs. The Brit isn’t a legitimate super-middleweight though and by his own admission, he needs to eat a lot and purposely gain weight to compete effectively at 168lbs. He’d be more effective campaigning at 160bs.

I guess the real question is whether Eubank Jr. can improve his current status in the sport and become a legitimate world champion (a top-four ranked fighter in his weight class).

And I personally doubt he’ll be able to do this. He’s about six months away from his 30th birthday and he doesn’t appear to listen or trust the usually sound advice given to him by his team.

His new trainer, Nate Vasquez, has a very decent reputation, but he’s no miracle worker. It’s probably too late in Eubank Jr’s career to significantly improve his boxing ability and footwork. He might be able to steer the Brit towards scoring an upset victory over one of the world champions though. That’s probably the most that Eubank Jr. can hope for really.

People don’t seem to like Chris, but they shouldn’t allow their feelings to become oblivious of his talents. He may be no world-beater, but he’s not a journeyman either.

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
If you aren't a world beater but not a jouneyman, then you are in somewhere in the middle. That can't be world class then?
In my mind, any fighter that is deemed as being rated amongst the top-ten in their respective division, is world-class. Chris Eubank is almost certainly a top-ten world-rated fighter (as per The RING, ESPN, WBC, WBA, WBO etc.).

I shouldn't need to provide a definition for the phrase "world beater", since it's self-explanatory.

It seems your weak attempt to find flaws in my thoughts has only served to inadvertently highlight your own lack of comprehension of the written form of the English language.

Well it depends on your definition of world class. Yours is pretty wide, probably wider than most.

How's that new username working out for you?

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:36**

he's 'special'

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:37**

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:36 he's 'special'

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:37**

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:09
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class....

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
yeah, so apart from his s*** defence and horrible footwork, and an inability to throw a jab, and sundry other technical deficiencies, he's world class, yeah?

Was Rocky Marciano world-class? Was Jack Dempsey world-class? Was Arturo Gatti world-class? Was Stanley Ketchel world-class? Was the early version of Nigel Benn world-class? Was David Tua world-class? Was David Lemieux world-class? Was Ernie Shavers world-class? The list goes on-and-on...

Chris Eubank is almost certainly a top-ten world-rated fighter (as per The RING, ESPN, WBC, WBA, WBO etc.).

Come on, you know better than this! You really must try harder!

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:39**

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:34
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:32
Roars Like Me wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 10:51
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class. He’d likely be considered by most to be a fringe top-ten rated fighter at 168lbs or 160lbs. The Brit isn’t a legitimate super-middleweight though and by his own admission, he needs to eat a lot and purposely gain weight to compete effectively at 168lbs. He’d be more effective campaigning at 160bs.

I guess the real question is whether Eubank Jr. can improve his current status in the sport and become a legitimate world champion (a top-four ranked fighter in his weight class).

And I personally doubt he’ll be able to do this. He’s about six months away from his 30th birthday and he doesn’t appear to listen or trust the usually sound advice given to him by his team.

His new trainer, Nate Vasquez, has a very decent reputation, but he’s no miracle worker. It’s probably too late in Eubank Jr’s career to significantly improve his boxing ability and footwork. He might be able to steer the Brit towards scoring an upset victory over one of the world champions though. That’s probably the most that Eubank Jr. can hope for really.

People don’t seem to like Chris, but they shouldn’t allow their feelings to become oblivious of his talents. He may be no world-beater, but he’s not a journeyman either.

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
If you aren't a world beater but not a jouneyman, then you are in somewhere in the middle. That can't be world class then?
In my mind, any fighter that is deemed as being rated amongst the top-ten in their respective division, is world-class. Chris Eubank is almost certainly a top-ten world-rated fighter (as per The RING, ESPN, WBC, WBA, WBO etc.).

I shouldn't need to provide a definition for the phrase "world beater", since it's self-explanatory.

It seems your weak attempt to find flaws in my thoughts has only served to inadvertently highlight your own lack of comprehension of the written form of the English language.
Well it depends on your definition of world class. Yours is pretty wide, probably wider than most.

How's that new username working out for you?

Verlichte is Dutch for enlightened, by the way

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:40**

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:34Well it depends on your definition of world class.

What's your definition of the phrase "world-class" if it excludes fighters rated within the top-ten of their respective weight divisions?

I'd be interested to know this, since most world ratings list the top-ten fighters of each weight-class, unless you believe this to be untrue?

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:41**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:37
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:09
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class....

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
yeah, so apart from his s*** defence and horrible footwork, and an inability to throw a jab, and sundry other technical deficiencies, he's world class, yeah?

Was Rocky Marciano world-class? Was Jack Dempsey world-class? Was Arturo Gatti world-class? Was Stanley Ketchel world-class? Was the early version of Nigel Benn world-class? Was David Tua world-class? Was David Lemieux world-class? Was Ernie SHavers world-class? The list goes on-and-on...

all these people you quote who have world class wins, that prove them to be world classyou mean? some of them world champions for several years.

now, very slowly, why don't you name me the world class wins that might make CEJ world class himself? I'll give you a clue- it isn't a 'list that goes on and on'

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:47**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:40
ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:34Well it depends on your definition of world class.
What's your definition of the phrase "world-class" if it excludes fighters rated within the top-ten of their respective weight divisions?

I'd be interested to know this, since most world ratings list the top-ten fighters of each weight-class, unless you believe this to be untrue?

I don't think there are ten world class fighters in each division. It depends on the depth of talent in the division.

Setting an arbitrary number of ten in each weight class is too simplistic

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:51**

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:47
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:40
ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:34Well it depends on your definition of world class.
What's your definition of the phrase "world-class" if it excludes fighters rated within the top-ten of their respective weight divisions?

I'd be interested to know this, since most world ratings list the top-ten fighters of each weight-class, unless you believe this to be untrue?
I don't think there are ten world class fighters in each division. It depends on the depth of talent in the division.

Setting an arbitrary number of ten in each weight class is too simplistic

Fair enough, that's a reasonable stance to take.

From a technical perspective, a fighter can still be world-class if they're rated as one of the top-ten competitiors in their division. However, I agree that this doesn't necessarily automatically warrant any respect from fight fans, especially if the talent pool is shallow.

So I can't disagree with you too much, but technically-speaking, Eubank is one of the best 168lb-ers competing on the planet today - even if he isn't particularly impressive.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:53**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:51
ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:47
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:40
ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:34Well it depends on your definition of world class.
What's your definition of the phrase "world-class" if it excludes fighters rated within the top-ten of their respective weight divisions?

I'd be interested to know this, since most world ratings list the top-ten fighters of each weight-class, unless you believe this to be untrue?
I don't think there are ten world class fighters in each division. It depends on the depth of talent in the division.

Setting an arbitrary number of ten in each weight class is too simplistic
Fair enough, that's a reasonable stance to take.

From a technical perspective, a fighter can still be world-class if they're rated as one of the top-ten competitiors in their division. However, I agree that this doesn't necessarily automatically warrant any respect from fight fans, especially if the talent pool is shallow.

Yeah there's probably close to 10 world class welterweights for example.

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:58**

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:41
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:37
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:09
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class....

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
yeah, so apart from his s*** defence and horrible footwork, and an inability to throw a jab, and sundry other technical deficiencies, he's world class, yeah?

Was Rocky Marciano world-class? Was Jack Dempsey world-class? Was Arturo Gatti world-class? Was Stanley Ketchel world-class? Was the early version of Nigel Benn world-class? Was David Tua world-class? Was David Lemieux world-class? Was Ernie SHavers world-class? The list goes on-and-on...
all these people you quote who have world class wins, that prove them to be world classyou mean? some of them world champions for several years.

now, very slowly, why don't you name me the world class wins that might make CEJ world class himself? I'll give you a clue- it isn't a 'list that goes on and on'

You’ve moved your stance.

You originally quoted two separate sentences that appeared to suggest that having very little boxing skill and being world-class were mutually exclusive.

So, I listed several world-renowned sluggers who didn’t have great jabs, bad footwork or could not possibly be considered as being defensively sound but were still world-class fighters in they heyday.

Now you’ve moved your argument to claim that a fighter can only be world-class if they have beaten a world-rated opponent.

So why did you even bother to quote Nate Vasquez's words? It seems a bit silly to do that if it doesn’t actually relate to your original argument, now does it?

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 11:59**

verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:58
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:41
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:37
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 11:09
verlichte wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:44 Chris Eubank Jr. is already world-class....

Nate Vasquez's brutal honesty to Eubank Jr: ‘Your defence is s***, your footwork’s horrible and you’ve got a lot to work on.’
yeah, so apart from his s*** defence and horrible footwork, and an inability to throw a jab, and sundry other technical deficiencies, he's world class, yeah?

Was Rocky Marciano world-class? Was Jack Dempsey world-class? Was Arturo Gatti world-class? Was Stanley Ketchel world-class? Was the early version of Nigel Benn world-class? Was David Tua world-class? Was David Lemieux world-class? Was Ernie SHavers world-class? The list goes on-and-on...
all these people you quote who have world class wins, that prove them to be world classyou mean? some of them world champions for several years.

now, very slowly, why don't you name me the world class wins that might make CEJ world class himself? I'll give you a clue- it isn't a 'list that goes on and on'
You’ve moved your stance.

You originally quoted two separate sentences that appeared to suggest that having very little boxing skill and being world-class were mutually exclusive.

So, I listed several world-renowned sluggers who didn’t have great jabs, good footwork or could possibly be considered as being defensively sound but were still world-class fighters in they heyday.

Now you’ve moved your argument to claim that a fighter can only be world-class if they have beaten a world-rated opponent.

So why did you even bother to quote Nate Vasquez's words? It seems a bit silly to do that if it doesn’t actually relate to your original argument, now does it?

I usually refrain from this type of post, but you really are an annoying pudendum!

Posted: **14 Feb 2019, 12:02**

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 09:16 No.

He's a fit lad but doesn't have the boxing ability to be world class

I disagree.
He's got all the stuff, "you can't teach" in spades, so - if you teach him - he should be very good indeed.
The problem for me is - is there enough time for him to learn to become world class?

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