BoxRec

Who would win and why?

IMO Frazier would stop Larry in R11

Either Holmes by decision or Frazier by KO. A close fight in any case.

I can see it both ways but more so a Holmes hard fought decision win. Holmes' jab and resiliency being the difference. Frazier would need to stop Holmes as I can't see Smokin' Joe beating Holmes by decision.

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 12:08 I can see it both ways but more so a Holmes hard fought decision win. Holmes' jab and resiliency being the difference. Frazier would need to stop Holmes as I can't see Smokin' Joe beating Holmes by decision.

I actually do see Frazier winning on PTS a bit like the first Ali fight.

Fair to say though I find Holmes slightly overrated on these forums. His best win being Gerry cooney.

cfang wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 12:52 Fair to say though I find Holmes slightly overrated on these forums. His best win being Gerry cooney.

I see Holmes quite differently on forums such as these. He's always the underrated one. We seem quick to forget him at times.

cfang wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 12:52 Fair to say though I find Holmes slightly overrated on these forums. His best win being Gerry cooney.

I don't know if Cooney was his best win. Perhaps it was Norton, Weaver, or Witherspoon. Witherspoon fight was very close though, but Tim was spot on that night.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 13:01 I don't know if Cooney was his best win. Perhaps it was Norton, Weaver, or Witherspoon. Witherspoon fight was very close though, but Tim was spot on that night.

Or Shavers II.

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 13:01 Or Shavers II.

Good point, the Acorn had temporarily escaped my memory.

Great fight its a 50/50 Frazier only ever lost to 2 men...…..Ali x2 in classic's and Foreman x2 the 2 men I just mentioned were way above any man Holmes beat that being said it wasn't Larry fault he missed out fighting facing Frazier/Foreman he was a dominate Heavyweight King when he reigned [it wasn't a strong era early/mid 80's] but again that's not Larry fault he fought most Challenge's head on and came out on Top until father time caught up his longevity helps his legacy he fought on way past his best with a fair bit of success in Smokin Joe his peak didn't last as long as Holmes peak fighting day's mainly because of Joe all action style and mindset of taking 2/3 punch's to land 1/2 of his own shot's and the Thriller in Manila was life Changing against Ali when I watch that fight I cannot help but think if Joe was in his Prime fighting day's he would give The Great Larry Holmes all he could handle and Joe Style I believe would have given the tall standing Larry Hell this fight would take month's even year's to get over for both Warrior's I see Joe winning a fight of the year Close but UN DEC.

Two wonderful fighters. Just my opinion, but I can see the Joe Frazier prior to the Foreman fight beating Holmes and probably knocking him out. After the Foreman fight, I don't think that Frazier was as good and who would win a Frazier-Holmes match then is anybody's guess.

- Joe was a butcher when he started in the amas where he won Olympic gold, and 24 when he chopped up Cus' Goliath for his 1st title, a peak undefeated Buster Mathis.

Lar would be just like another side of beef in Joes grinder.

When you gotta big up a journeyman like Weaver or Shavers as Lar's best opponent, you've lost the plot. Now I love those two, but Lar padded out his record while ducking the WBA champs and the immediate Norton rematch that would've paid a lot more than the scraps King was feeding him.

cfang wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 12:52 Fair to say though I find Holmes slightly overrated on these forums. His best win being Gerry cooney.

That's nowhere near his best win.

I really can't call this. Holmes with his speed, footwork, jab and toughness is good enough to beat anyone but also Frazier's relentlessness, strength, power, toughness and Holmes' lack of true fight changing power make it about 50/50 for me.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 08:57 That's nowhere near his best win.

So who is? Norton towards the end of his career, witherspoon starting his, shavers?

Point im making is holmes was a great fighter but i think rated too highly these days, He doesn't have a really huge win apart from prob cooney that was his big super fight. Ali as we know was a shell, larry lost twice to spinks, got koed by tyson. You could actually make a case for the mercer win all those years later as being incredibly impressive. He beat a lot of solid pros though, like snipes, weaver, berbick etc.

cfang wrote: ↑01 May 2019, 14:43 So who is? Norton towards the end of his career, witherspoon starting his, shavers?

Point im making is holmes was a great fighter but i think rated too highly these days, He doesn't have a really huge win apart from prob cooney that was his big super fight. Ali as we know was a shell, larry lost twice to spinks, got koed by tyson. You could actually make a case for the mercer win all those years later as being incredibly impressive. He beat a lot of solid pros though, like snipes, weaver, berbick etc.

Cooney was his most hyped fight but not his best win.

At the time that they fought Holmes, Norton was the best fighter that he fought. Simply watch the fight. Norton would have beaten almost anyone else.
Holmes-Frazier would have been a great fight. I would lean toward Frazier, it certainly could go either way.

cfang wrote: ↑30 Apr 2019, 12:52 Fair to say though I find Holmes slightly overrated on these forums. His best win being Gerry cooney.

Anyone who knows boxing knows Larry was capable of beating anyone in history,whether he would is another question,he was however never beaten until past his best.

Both were superb champions. Top ten all time heavyweights and top 50 pound per pound all time greats.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 06:33 Both were superb champions. Top ten all time heavyweights and top 50 pound per pound all time greats.

Larry Holmes easily here. I've always thought Joe Frazier one of the most overrated heavyweights ever.

A young Holmes would win easily with his jab alone. An older Holmes would also win it, but he'd have to put in more effort. Either way, any version of Holmes would at least outbox and outpoint the "one-dimensional" Frazier.

The Joe Frazier who beat Muhammad Ali beats any version of Larry Holmes.

HeavyHitters wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 13:29 Larry Holmes easily here. I've always thought Joe Frazier one of the most overrated heavyweights ever.

A young Holmes would win easily with his jab alone. An older Holmes would also win it, but he'd have to put in more effort. Either way, any version of Holmes would at least outbox and outpoint the "one-dimensional" Frazier.

Yeah I make you right. In fact who even thinks to make a thread including stiffs like Frazier.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 06:33 Both were superb champions. Top ten all time heavyweights and top 50 pound per pound all time greats.

For once I have to agree with elmer.

It's a 50/50 fight, but I might slightly favor Joe in a 15 rounder, an 8-7 fight, Joe's style gives Larry problems, and Larry's jab gives Joe problems.