BoxRec

.......who would be the Lineal champion?

Fury, Lewis officially retired.

If we dug up Gene Tunney or the mangled remains of Marciano, who would be the lineal champ?

banjo wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 03:42 Fury, Lewis officially retired.

Fury officially retired as well.

keith.. thurman...

Who cares, I don't buy into that lineal champion malarkey. People only bring it up for the HWs.

Actually after multiple "retirements" of Fury there was no new lineal champ declared. After Lewis there were 2 officially recognized lineal champions. So the situation isn't that irrational, as some can think.

DrDuke wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 04:34 Actually after multiple "retirements" of Fury there was no new lineal champ declared. After Lewis there were 2 officially recognized lineal champions. So the situation isn't that irrational, as some can think.

I don't think anyone is "officially" recognised as a lineal champion following a retirement. There was never some belt wearing cermony for either Klitchsko.

It all gets cloudy. No one seems to have a problem calling Calzaghe the lineal Light Heavyweight champion - However Hopkins did announce a retirement after Tarver and in the interim between Hopkins vs Tarver and Hopkins vs Calzaghe, Chad Dawson was racking up some good wins.

What would have happened had Fury never come back. Personally, I feel if a period of inactivity means belts are relinquished then I classify a man who partially unifies the big 4 as the recognised world champion - even if that does not mean Lineal directly.

For me, when Foreman started to reliquinsh belt after belt after the Moorer fight and started fighting guys who did not warrant title shots - I saw the recognised Heavyweight champion (I know not lineal) as vacant until Tyson won WBA and WBC belts.

stujones wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 06:58 I don't think anyone is "officially" recognised as a lineal champion following a retirement. There was never some belt wearing cermony for either Klitchsko.

It all gets cloudy. No one seems to have a problem calling Calzaghe the lineal Light Heavyweight champion - However Hopkins did announce a retirement after Tarver and in the interim between Hopkins vs Tarver and Hopkins vs Calzaghe, Chad Dawson was racking up some good wins.

What would have happened had Fury never come back. Personally, I feel if a period of inactivity means belts are relinquished then I classify a man who partially unifies the big 4 as the recognised world champion - even if that does not mean Lineal directly.

For me, when Foreman started to reliquinsh belt after belt after the Moorer fight and started fighting guys who did not warrant title shots - I saw the recognised Heavyweight champion (I know not lineal) as vacant until Tyson won WBA and WBC belts.

Briggs was the man, surely, then Lennox.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 07:13 Briggs was the man, surely, then Lennox.

Foreman took a 18 month hiatus after Schultz and fought in a dodgy Japennese card which I'm not 100% sure was fully commisioned (it had recently announced HIV fighter Tommy Morrison on the card!) - so if that was not licenced it was over two years between Schultz and Saverese. Not sure how Foreman, who point blanked refused an ordered rematch vs Schultz should be still considered "the man".... when during this period - Tyson and Holyfield were duking it out in some of the biggest events in the sports' history.

Lewis got his reward 100% confirmed when he beat Holyfield.

stujones wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 07:22 Foreman took a 18 month hiatus after Schultz and fought in a dodgy Japennese card which I'm not 100% sure was fully commisioned (it had recently announced HIV fighter Tommy Morrison on the card!) - so if that was not licenced it was over two years between Schultz and Saverese. Not sure how Foreman, who point blanked refused an ordered rematch vs Schultz should be still considered "the man".... when during this period - Tyson and Holyfield were duking it out in some of the biggest events in the sports' history.

Lewis got his reward 100% confirmed when he beat Holyfield.

All valid points, but Jeffries and Ali were both 'the man' after long layoffs and Fury missed 2.5 years. Do you consider any of those three Lineal champions when they fought Johnson, Frazier and Wilder respectively?

banjo wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 03:42 Fury, Lewis officially retired.

So did fury.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 07:49 All valid points, but Jeffries and Ali were both 'the man' after long layoffs and Fury missed 2.5 years. Do you consider any of those three Lineal champions when they fought Johnson, Frazier and Wilder respectively?

Ali yes as his layoff was enforced. It wasn't through a violation of boxing laws or fighting nobodies that Ali lost his title.

Jeffries - obviously a different era - I guess its like asking about Lewis now. Had Jeffries not comeback then I would have gladly still called Johnson the man and the recognised champion - but he did so Johnson got it more official. Had Jeffries comeback and lost to some poor ranking opponent in his comeback then I would have said "no". I wouldn't have recognised a comebacking Jeffries or his successor as "the man".

Fury - I don't consider him the man. He did a Foreman post Moorer and hasn't won a meaningful fight since.. It was inactivity / transgression of boxing commisions that left him unlicenced and stripped and he called his retirment. Imagine if he lost to that 40 year old Cruiserweight - I could never call him the man.

Foreman - was ordered to give Schultz a rematch - refused and went on a self-proclaimed hiatus and fought guys not worthy to challenge for the title - and I include Briggs in that category at the time of their fight.

stujones wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 08:36 Ali yes as his layoff was enforced. It wasn't through a violation of boxing laws or fighting nobodies that Ali lost his title.

Jeffries - obviously a different era - I guess its like asking about Lewis now. Had Jeffries not comeback then I would have gladly still called Johnson the man and the recognised champion - but he did so Johnson got it more official. Had Jeffries comeback and lost to some poor ranking opponent in his comeback then I would have said "no". I wouldn't have recognised a comebacking Jeffries or his successor as "the man".

Fury - I don't consider him the man. He did a Foreman post Moorer and hasn't won a meaningful fight since.. It was inactivity / transgression of boxing commisions that left him unlicenced and stripped and he called his retirment. Imagine if he lost to that 40 year old Cruiserweight - I could never call him the man.

Foreman - was ordered to give Schultz a rematch - refused and went on a self-proclaimed hiatus and fought guys not worthy to challenge for the title - and I include Briggs in that category at the time of their fight.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 08:23 So did fury.

Well then there isn't a lineal

banjo wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 08:46 Well then there isn't a lineal

It's irrelevant in this day and age. Has been for decades.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 08:49 It's irrelevant in this day and age. Has been for decades.

True, nobody ever considered Foreman the champion over Bowe or Holyfield did they.

Mmmmm . Well i've give iot some thought , and come to the conclusion , If Lewis came out of retirement ,, he'd be too old ,,, but regards lineal champion , got to admit i think to mysel whats a lineal champion , your the champion or your not ,, Klitchko was a champ then he was'nt , Fury was a champ then he was'nt ,, AJ is a champ , and Wilder is a champ , although non off them can be the proper champ until they fight each other for the undisputed ,,,, we don't need a lineal champ weve got enough all ready

banjo wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 08:54 True, nobody ever considered Foreman the champion over Bowe or Holyfield did they.

Yes they did. Foreman beat the guy that beat Holyfield. He was the man.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 10:27 Yes they did. Foreman beat the guy that beat Holyfield. He was the man.

It doesn't matter who lineal champions fight, they will still be the lineal champion until they permanently retire, lose or die (whichever comes first).
Like it or not Tyson Fury is the current lineal champion.

SteveO wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 14:26
It doesn't matter who lineal champions fight, they will still be the lineal champion until they permanently retire, lose or die (whichever comes first).
Like it or not Tyson Fury is the current lineal champion.

Yeah, but who really cares?

SteveO wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 14:26
It doesn't matter who lineal champions fight, they will still be the lineal champion until they permanently retire, lose or die (whichever comes first).
Like it or not Tyson Fury is the current lineal champion.

So Lennox Lewis is still the man if he makes a comeback. Lewis-Allen!!!!!

oogiebe wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 14:27 Yeah, but who really cares?

I expect he does.
Edit: I forgot to mention his promoter and his sponsors etc. they all care too.

Surely this is where the emeritus champion comes into play!

Coco wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 15:12 Surely this is where the emeritus champion comes into play!

Surely Vitali is still emeritus champ.