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BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 00:29
by Best Coast
Who is the best all-time pro boxer so far from a nation that used to be part of the Soviet Union? That includes:
Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Georgia, Belarus, Latvia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan & a few other former Soviet republics.
KOSTYA TSZYU
VITALI KLITSCHKO
WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO
GENNADY GOLOVKIN
VASILIY LOMACHENKO
OLEKSANDR USYK
SERGEY KOVALEV
VASSILIY JIROV
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 01:41
by Ilya Muromets
Vitali and Wlad, the two best heavyweights ever. Usyk and Lomachenko are tops too but just not as time tested yet. Golovkin is undefeated, mafia vegas judges notwithstanding. They are all greats. Let me see, who was left out?
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 14:34
by ValMar
It is very difficult to discuss about their respective resumes.
Usyk had been the most dominant champion (CW), I have no dilemma about that.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 18:24
by oogiebe
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 01:41
Vitali and Wlad, the two best heavyweights ever. Usyk and Lomachenko are tops too but just not as time tested yet. Golovkin is undefeated, mafia vegas judges notwithstanding. They are all greats. Let me see, who was left out?
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 18:26
by oogiebe
Greatest achievement I'd go with Wlad.
Best boxer? Usyk.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 19:30
by Onetimeonly
Tough call, I voted for ggg but anyone but vitali or jirov is reasonable.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 19:32
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 19:30
Tough call, I voted for ggg but anyone but vitali or jirov is reasonable.
I almost went GGG, but I can't vote an all time question on a current fighter.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 20:23
by Verdi
Could have been Pirog.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 08 May 2019, 20:43
by Onetimeonly
oogiebe wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 19:32
I almost went GGG, but I can't vote an all time question on a current fighter.
Feel ya, though their wins usually can only get better. A rare question that's so close I'm drawn to at their best.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 04:02
by Best Coast
Verdi wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 20:23
Could have been Pirog.
Could have been Pirog IF he stuck around in the fight game longer. I thought about listing him but his only significant win was his impressive stoppage of Danny Jacobs, just a few months before Jacobs was diagnosed with bone cancer. After a few more wins Pirog disappeared from boxing completely. Feel free to click "Somebody Else" on the list above, which nobody has clicked on so far.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 07:46
by Counter-puncher
Yuri Arbachakov at least needs to be on the list
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 09:24
by Onetimeonly
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑09 May 2019, 07:46
Yuri Arbachakov at least needs to be on the list
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 12:35
by Ilya Muromets
Igor Vysotsky of Russia beat the great Cuban heavyweight Teofilo Stevenson not once but twice, both times they fought. He lost several other fights on cuts though. He was prone to cutting. Stevenson always wanted to fight Ali . He was confident of beating him. But he wasn't allowed to turn pro. Cuban boxers still aren't allowed to turn pro, but now there are many Cuban ex pat boxers. So keep in mind that the so called US and UK "world champions" before the 1990's were really only US and UK champions. They never fought any Cubans or Russians or eastern Europeans, They never fought the Vysotskys and Stevensons.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 13:27
by ValMar
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑09 May 2019, 12:35
Igor Vysotsky of Russia beat the great Cuban heavyweight Teofilo Stevenson not once but twice, both times they fought. He lost several other fights on cuts though. He was prone to cutting. Stevenson always wanted to fight Ali . He was confident of beating him. But he wasn't allowed to turn pro. Cuban boxers still aren't allowed to turn pro, but now there are many Cuban ex pat boxers. So keep in mind that the so called US and UK "world champions" before the 1990's were really only US and UK champions. They never fought any Cubans or Russians or eastern Europeans, They never fought the Vysotskys and Stevensons.
I agree, but not absolutely. The world champions were not only from USA or UK (Latin America, Western Europe, former Yugoslavia).
I consider Teofilo Stevenson the best HW I have ever seen. I think he had been a level above Holmes (who ruled the HW division after Ali) and they were the same or almost the same generation, I am not sure 100 %. Unfortunately, I have never watched Vysotsky.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 13:45
by Ilya Muromets
ValMar wrote: ↑09 May 2019, 13:27
I agree, but not absolutely. The world champions were not only from USA or UK (Latin America, Western Europe, former Yugoslavia).
I consider Teofilo Stevenson the best HW I have ever seen. I think he had been a level above Holmes (who ruled the HW division after Ali) and they were the same or almost the same generation, I am not sure 100 %. Unfortunately, I have never watched Vysotsky.
Yes you are correct there were fighters from Latin America and western Europe but mostly they, especially the heavyweights, came from the US and UK, mainly the former, especially in the years following the disastrous WW2. Former Yugoslavia brings to mind Mavrovic who I thought could have beaten Lenox Lewis (in his final fight) except he was 30 pounds smaller (boxing needs more heavyweight divisions!) , but that was already 1998 when eastern Europeans were competing after the evil Bolshevik tyrannies had collapsed. Short clips of Vysotsky are available online. He and Stevenson became long time friends.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 13:49
by Counter-puncher
Eye test wise he's the best for me. I'm probably biased but p4p he was better technically than GGG or Wlad. More rounded than Kovalev (if he's even in the conversation)
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 13:57
by ValMar
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑09 May 2019, 13:45
Yes you are correct there were fighters from Latin America and western Europe but mostly they, especially the heavyweights, came from the US and UK, mainly the former, especially in the years following the disastrous WW2. Former Yugoslavia brings to mind Mavrovic who I thought could have beaten Lenox Lewis (in his final fight) except he was 30 pounds smaller (boxing needs more heavyweight divisions!) , but that was already 1998 when eastern Europeans were competing after the evil Bolshevik tyrannies had collapsed. Short clips of Vysotsky are available online. He and Stevenson became long time friends.
Mate Parlov had great amateur career at LHW, and he had been the profesional world champion. Slobodan Kačar, too............
Mavrović had been a natural CW, he told that he had competed at HW because there had not been glory and money at CW.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 16:31
by Ilya Muromets
When i was boxing i used to train with a fellow who had been on the old Czechoslovakian boxing team and visited Cuba etc. and fought against the team with Stevenson tho he was in a different weight class. I'm still in touch with him and he's still active in boxing.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 16:43
by paddy chavez
Wlad for me , lomochenko will most likely over take him and usyk could if he beats one of the top 3 heavies for a belt . even golovkin has a chance if he Ko's canelo
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 17:04
by KiwiRider
I know it isn't Loma, but from the list, he had the most potential to be top. If he had turned pro after his first Olympics, signed to the right promotor, well, one of the ATG's comes to mind.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 19:06
by boxing_rocks
The best one quality wise is definitely Loma.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 19:11
by squiggy
By accomplishments, Wlad.
Just trying to think of one who hasn't been mentioned: Orzubek Nazarov was a champion at post-Whitaker, pre-Castillo lightweight.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 09 May 2019, 19:33
by Best Coast
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑09 May 2019, 07:46
Yuri Arbachakov at least needs to be on the list
Just check the box that says "Someone Else" if you think he's the best.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 10 May 2019, 07:44
by DrDuke
Wlad. He was excellent from the technical side, had a great skill of using his size, he was a dominant force of his dividion for a decade.
Re: BEST ALL-TIME PRO FIGHTER FROM AN EX-SOVIET NATION
Posted: 10 May 2019, 20:40
by victor-romeo
I put Lomachenko. You could say Wlad. But Wlad not as brilliant as Loma.