BoxRec

Let's say instead of the great Larry Holmes as champion of the Heavyweight Division is the great Joe Frazier, IN HIS PRIME, defending the title against the same challengers that Holmes had in the late 70s and early 80s decade. Which one of them would have taken Frazier's title? Would Frazier reach to 20 defenses like Larry did? Which one of them would have given him the most trouble? Which one of them would have clearly beaten him and knocked him out?

Frazier obviously would never have a prime of over a decade. His lasted roughly 3 years. That being said he'd probably make it to Witherspoon or Smith/Williams before losing.

He's be a great CW in the '80's.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 14:25 He's be a great CW in the '80's.

No way he'd fight at cruiser.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 14:54 No way he'd fight at cruiser.

He may not have wanted to but he would have cleaned up.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:29 He may not have wanted to but he would have cleaned up.

I don't think 190 would have been a good weight for him.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:32 I don't think 190 would have been a good weight for him.

He fought there early in his career if I'm not mistaken. 205+ would still have easily been his fight weight.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:35 He fought there early in his career if I'm not mistaken. 205+ would still have easily been his fight weight.

When did it go to 200?

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:35 When did it go to 200?

I don't recall exactly. After evander moved up, I'd guess mid 90s.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:40 I don't recall exactly. After evander moved up, I'd guess mid 90s.

I knew it was after this decade but not quite sure when, Thanks.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:35 He fought there early in his career if I'm not mistaken. 205+ would still have easily been his fight weight.

He was like 250 as a teenager. Well over 190 in the Olympics and he was rock solid at 205.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑11 May 2019, 15:44 He was like 250 as a teenager. Well over 190 in the Olympics and he was rock solid at 205.

You're right.

If you look at the fights individually I think prime Frazier beats them all and Spinks too, but his prime wouldn't be long enough to actually fight them all. He probably looses to Witherspoon.

Lets say instead of 1968, it was 1978 that Frazier turned professional. Within two years Frazier won the title, so I'd have to assume he'd of at least won the WBA title--- and we'd of seen by '82 a unifier with Larry Holmes.

However, I think by '84 he'd of had trouble to the point of retiring, only to be drawn out of retirement to face Mike Tyson in '86 which he'd lose.

Not sure who would have takin the Title of Smokin Joe I doubt it would have been Michael Spinks though but the fighter's that Larry defended against that would pose the most serious threat to Frazier would be Terrible Tim Witherspoon and Hard puncher's in Ernie Shavers and Gerry Cooney.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 May 2019, 21:42 Lets say instead of 1968, it was 1978 that Frazier turned professional. Within two years Frazier won the title, so I'd have to assume he'd of at least won the WBA title--- and we'd of seen by '82 a unifier with Larry Holmes.

However, I think by '84 he'd of had trouble to the point of retiring, only to be drawn out of retirement to face Mike Tyson in '86 which he'd lose.

Any interest in the question asked by the op?

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑13 May 2019, 08:21 Any interest in the question asked by the op?

As far as Larry Holmes opponents as champion versus Joe Frazier....

I can't see any of them beating him tbh. Mind you, I've always felt Larry was robbed against Spinks. So, in reality, Holmes wouldn't have lost until he met Mike Tyson--- which is how I see Frazier, in this alternative universe. Frazier vs Tyson would have been the end. I can't see even the WBA paper champions Holmes didn't fight being any real bother to Frazier.

I must admit, though, I like the sound of a Frazier vs Dokes fight. That would have been entertaining.

Frazier vs Dokes would have been interesting for 3 rounds, before Frazier's hook really started doing damage. Michael didn't have the power to hang with Joe. I could see Smokin' Joe being champ for 7, 8 years, if he didn't fight Larry Holmes, maybe Tyson. Would have been interesting to see Frazier with a Jheri Curl.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑13 May 2019, 16:19 Frazier vs Dokes would have been interesting for 3 rounds, before Frazier's hook really started doing damage. Michael didn't have the power to hang with Joe. I could see Smokin' Joe being champ for 7, 8 years, if he didn't fight Larry Holmes, maybe Tyson. Would have been interesting to see Frazier with a Jheri Curl.

Frazier would have won, yes, but if you look back at Holyfield vs Dokes that was a helluva war. I think Dokes would have been in the fight with Frazier well passed ten rounds--- because Holyfield was more the complete fighter, with good power and speed, and Frazier was basically one-handed and just barrelled forward.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑13 May 2019, 20:05 Frazier would have won, yes, but if you look back at Holyfield vs Dokes that was a helluva war. I think Dokes would have been in the fight with Frazier well passed ten rounds--- because Holyfield was more the complete fighter, with good power and speed, and Frazier was basically one-handed and just barrelled forward.

True, very good point, but that one punch was very special. If Dokes had a little more power, it could go championship rounds.

I would pick Frazier to beat anyone them. He could have made the 20 title defenses. He was better from 1968-1975 than anyone. Of course running the table wouldn't be easy' he could have an off night. Still think he would have pulled it off.

Earnie Shavers would have been the most dangerous.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2019, 16:02 I would pick Frazier to beat anyone them. He could have made the 20 title defenses. He was better from 1968-1975 than anyone. Of course running the table wouldn't be easy' he could have an off night. Still think he would have pulled it off.

Earnie Shavers would have been the most dangerous.

True, for the first 2 rounds.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑16 May 2019, 16:13 True, for the first 2 rounds.

He was dangerous longer than that.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑16 May 2019, 21:50 He was dangerous longer than that.

Ask Holmes or Ali.

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 May 2019, 21:51 Ask Holmes or Ali.

I think the shot he hit Ali with just before the bell in Rd 2 might have been the biggest shot ever that didn't produce a kd. Ernie did like room to operate, he's not getting that with Joe.