BoxRec

And when did it become a rule? I was just talking Boxing with my Uncle. Max Baer came up for some reason, and I mentioned how often he backhanded guys, and got away with, I mentioned that I'm not sure if it was against the rules then or not, but I know it is now, but nevertheless he does it a lot.

So anyway. Anybody got some insight on this? When did Backhands get outlawed from the sport, and what's the reasoning behind it?

First thought is that it probably goes back to bare knuckle days.

I'm not so sure that it ever really was ever against the rules. As time went on people started saying such tactics were "illegal" because it was likened to martial arts tactics--- but I don't think it ever was or is even in the rules against it.

Alot of things aren't if you think about it. There is no rule against clocking somebody in the throat or neck for example. Things like that are "frowned upon" but are not against the rules.

I would think somebody out there would surely do it once in a while if it weren't against the rules, but I never ever see it in this day and age. Max Baer did it a lot

https://books.google.com/books?id=dH5HA ... ng&f=false

Apparently once upon a time it was an accepted punch according to this book.

It fell out of favor in the 1910s and began to get banned in various locales.

You do see still see it sometimes. Tyson Fury does it quite a bit.


Neck punching actually used to be pretty common, I assumed it was just because the larger gloves made it too hard to hit.

It’s not a proper punch, it’s like a slap. Anyone can dish out a slap or backhander. Hooks, jabs etc need more skill.

oogiebe wrote: ↑25 May 2019, 20:57 First thought is that it probably goes back to bare knuckle days.

Apparently it does go back to bareknuckle days. It was banned in order to reduce cuts/bleeding which a backhand (without gloves) was likely to do.

When you read the old newspaper accounts of the bare knuckle fights, the neck shot was a common punch; actually desirable. Punches had to avoid the head so the nose, ears, eyes, mouth, underside of the chin, neck, and entire body were the targets.

The newspaper round-by-round reports mention both attempted and landed neck shots round after round. It seemed to be a desirable punch to land.

Funny, they never use (that I have noticed) the word throat. A neck shot sounds like it could be OK, a 'throat shot' just sounds dirty.

I wonder if deliberately going for the other guy's apple was considered foul or if any shot to the neck was OK?

Maybe neck shots were only acceptable if to the side, under the ear, but not from the front? I have no clue.

As soon as boxing (gloved fights) appears the word neck literally disappears from the ringside reports. As someone mentioned about, it looks like gloves now force those punches up on to the chin and side of the face.

APerno wrote: ↑27 May 2019, 16:47 When you read the old newspaper accounts of the bare knuckle fights, the neck shot was a common punch; actually desirable. Punches had to avoid the head so the nose, ears, eyes, mouth, underside of the chin, neck, and entire body were the targets.

The newspaper round-by-round reports mention both attempted and landed neck shots round after round. It seemed to be a desirable punch to land.

Funny, they never use (that I have noticed) the word throat. A neck shot sounds like it could be OK, a 'throat shot' just sounds dirty.

I wonder if deliberately going for the other guy's apple was considered foul or if any shot to the neck was OK?

Maybe neck shots were only acceptable if to the side, under the ear, but not from the front? I have no clue.

As soon as boxing (gloved fights) appears the word neck literally disappears from the ringside reports. As someone mentioned about, it looks like gloves now force those punches up on to the chin and side of the face.

Unless you're Duane Bobick.

This has reminded me of an incident years ago when I was sparring with my mate who had no boxing experience, he jumped in the air and punched me on the top of the head whilst airborne a bit like the Muay Thai guys do, I was like “what the fcuk was that” ! He asked me if it was against the rules and I said it wasn’t the done thing but I didn’t know of any rule against it which perplexed me a bit!

littlepug wrote: ↑27 May 2019, 17:38 This has reminded me of an incident years ago when I was sparring with my mate who had no boxing experience, he jumped in the air and punched me on the top of the head whilst airborne a bit like the Muay Thai guys do, I was like “what the fcuk was that” ! He asked me if it was against the rules and I said it wasn’t the done thing but I didn’t know of any rule against it which perplexed me a bit!

Superman Punch

I never understood why the MMA guys still do it because it takes so much speed, timing, etc to actually hit someone with it. You're more likely to get kayoed yourself trying it on somebody than you kayoing someone with a Superman Punch.

littlepug wrote: ↑27 May 2019, 17:38 This has reminded me of an incident years ago when I was sparring with my mate who had no boxing experience, he jumped in the air and punched me on the top of the head whilst airborne a bit like the Muay Thai guys do, I was like “what the fcuk was that” ! He asked me if it was against the rules and I said it wasn’t the done thing but I didn’t know of any rule against it which perplexed me a bit!

lol another thing like this is the double punch. pac got warned for doing it i think but is there really a rule against it

I see nobody else really has a definitive answer about the illegality or reason therein than I do here. So I guess it was a good question. Thanks for the input gents, and yeah A. Perno I recently read a book about Bob Fitzsimmons, and yes indeed there were a lot of mentions of neck punches in there, and I remembered how odd that struck me reading that.

I guess it's because the backhand is expected to cause cuts easier, and I can see how that would be the case. It's technically a hit with the fist so it probably SHOULD count, but for whatever reason it's just not the thing to do, and I'm pretty sure whether there is officially a rule against it or not a referee would say something to you about it if you did it.

I know on Boxing video games it's often one of the foul moves that you can do.

Thanks for all the inputs so far gents, and any further info that somebody can dig up about why this is a foul in Boxing or when it became so I'd love to hear.

jamamb wrote: ↑27 May 2019, 18:34 lol another thing like this is the double punch. pac got warned for doing it i think but is there really a rule against it

I remember Sam Peter hitting James Toney with a double punch at one point, and I remember Emanuel Augustus hitting Ray Oliveira with it. As I recall Peter was warned, and Augustus wasn't. I don't think it's against the rules, but I would imagine some referees might give you a warning just out of a sense of "Hey I've never seen that, so I'm not sure if you can do it...so just to be safe...don't"

jamamb wrote: ↑27 May 2019, 18:34 lol another thing like this is the double punch. pac got warned for doing it i think but is there really a rule against it

Can you describe the double punch for me, thanks!

Double-Punch, I think is basically like an "Axe Handle Smash", using both fists at the same time. Oftentimes in a downward motion.

its basically throwing 2 seperate punches at the same time

more like a double-jab,how can you get much leverage into it ?

Caractacus wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 16:02 more like a double-jab,how can you get much leverage into it ?

You can't. It's not particularly effective. Hence why nobody ever does it. The only times I've ever seen people do it was out of frustration (which was the case with Peter vs Toney) or just goofing around (which was the case with Emanuel Augustus against Ray Oliveira). It's not anything that's actually gonna be winning you any fights.

Botha did it also against Tyson in 3rd round.
Not sure if referee did not notice, or decided he was OK with this "double ear slap".
I guess since it targeted ears (actually even both at once) it had a remote chance to land effectively.

George Foreman did it effectively.
except it was done kindof slow almost like he was pushing his opponent backwards onto their heels to get some distance before he walloped them.

Funny as soon as I read the title I immediately thought of Max Baer.

Brian Seneca wrote: ↑09 Jul 2019, 07:22 Funny as soon as I read the title I immediately thought of Max Baer.

Baer is always the first name that pops into my mind when I think of backhand blows. Watching old footage of him will easily show why