BoxRec

He overdoes everything anyway.

Ruined? Nah.

Joshua has a mountain to climb to get back to the titles. But he can potentially do it. If he wants it. Lennox Lewis was written off after McCall but he rebuilt himself with fights against Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer.

I wouldn't look passed Ortiz either. He most likely will not win but Wilder's not showing any effort to shorten up his punches, actually try to box, etc--- and he's going to need that against Tyson Fury.

I can see Wilder-Joshua happening in 2020. Maybe both men will have no belts at that point, and the winner will face Tyson Fury. It's still a marketable fight.

Steven A. is always an over the top guy. That's his shtick. An ESPN troll.

Decades ago everyone insisted Ali-Frazier 2 was ruined after Foreman bounced Frazier all over the canvas in Jamaica.

And it was officially pronounced dead 2 months later when Norton broke Ali's jaw and scored a stunning victory.

Yet Ali and Frazier went on to wage two more highly anticipated fights, one of which is considered one of the greatest in heavyweight championship history.

So Wilder and Joshua can still be resurrected. Nothing a few wins by Joshua can't cure.

Boxing fans often have short memories anyways. Marquez putting Pacquiao to sleep didn't stop the Filipinos' fight with Mayweather from becoming the most bought PPV in history.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 12:13
I can see Wilder-Joshua happening in 2020. Maybe both men will have no belts at that point, and the winner will face Tyson Fury. It's still a marketable fight.

This is how I see it. They’ll both have no belts and will probably fight for the vacant WBC Pearl title

Or the WBF HW belt.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 12:36 This is how I see it. They’ll both have no belts and will probably fight for the vacant WBC Pearl title

Or the WBF HW belt.

One thing is for sure, though... If Joshua cannot rebound from this.... The division is basically going to tank in popularity.... No offense to Fury (even though he is the man) or Wilder, but without a marketable dance partner I don't care what division it is business will stink.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 12:39 One thing is for sure, though... If Joshua cannot rebound from this.... The division is basically going to tank in popularity.... No offense to Fury (even though he is the man) or Wilder, but without a marketable dance partner I don't care what division it is business will stink.

Does Ruiz beating Joshua, Open the HW division up a lil?

These results are a good thing. Changes things up a lil.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 12:51 Does Ruiz beating Joshua, Open the HW division up a lil?

These results are a good thing. Changes things up a lil.

It's a shot of temporary excitement, for sure. However, the question is, "Who is a long term investment?", and that's Joshua. Ruiz I can see being a spoiler & pain in the ass for alot of guys, but I don't see him as the guy who will keep the division jumping.

If Joshua cannot rebound, then no amount of Kownacki's and Miller's and Usyk's and Ruiz's are gonna change that.

was he on the muppet show ..

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 12:13 Ruined? Nah.

Joshua has a mountain to climb to get back to the titles. But he can potentially do it. If he wants it. Lennox Lewis was written off after McCall but he rebuilt himself with fights against Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer.

I wouldn't look passed Ortiz either. He most likely will not win but Wilder's not showing any effort to shorten up his punches, actually try to box, etc--- and he's going to need that against Tyson Fury.

I can see Wilder-Joshua happening in 2020. Maybe both men will have no belts at that point, and the winner will face Tyson Fury. It's still a marketable fight.

It's still a marketable fight no doubt. It's not a megafight anymore though. 2 days ago it was one of the 2 or 3 biggest fights possible in Boxing according to most everybody. Now it might not be Top 5 or Top 10 anymore.

I'd still wanna see it, but the magic and mythos is gone.

Stephen A Smith knows jack about boxing

He definitely doesn't, but I kinda know what he means.

We're never going to see 2 Undefeated Heavyweight Champions with an over 90% KO ratio primed to face each other for the Undisputed Title again in our lifetimes. That's how rare that is. It's a goddamn shame they didn't make the matchup while the making was good.

This is why the 70s were better than the 90s and today.
Even if you think the fighters then or now are better, you can’t argue that boxing wasn’t better then.

Ali and Frazier fought right away. Two tune ups for Ali...they didn’t putz around and “marinate” the thing like now or in the 90s with Bowe and Lewis.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 14:10 It's still a marketable fight no doubt. It's not a megafight anymore though. 2 days ago it was one of the 2 or 3 biggest fights possible in Boxing according to most everybody. Now it might not be Top 5 or Top 10 anymore.

I'd still wanna see it, but the magic and mythos is gone.

I remember when this all started.

Ortiz, Fury, Joshua, Wilder, Parker, and Browne.... Six undefeated heavyweight champions or contenders.... The dream was that one by one they'd fall until a "Masters of the Universe" battle in the end for all the belts between the best two. Most thought that'd end up being Joshua-Fury at Wembley.

But promotional greed & insecurity & a few curve balls shot that all to pieces.

If Joshua can rebuild himself, as if to prove this loss was a fluke, and manage to kayo someone like Usyk for good measure, then it's back to near-mythic proportions against the Wilder-Fury 2 winner.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 14:57 I remember when this all started.

Ortiz, Fury, Joshua, Wilder, Parker, and Browne.... Six undefeated heavyweight champions or contenders.... The dream was that one by one they'd fall until a "Masters of the Universe" battle in the end for all the belts between the best two. Most thought that'd end up being Joshua-Fury at Wembley.

But promotional greed & insecurity & a few curve balls shot that all to pieces.

If Joshua can rebuild himself, as if to prove this loss was a fluke, and manage to kayo someone like Usyk for good measure, then it's back to near-mythic proportions against the Wilder-Fury 2 winner.

Doubtful it gets THAT big again, but it could become a superfight again certainly. All depends on if he's able to rebound, and how he looks in doing it. If he beats Ruiz in a rematch by the skin of his teeth, I don't think anybody is gonna be too excited about him. He's gonna have to come back with a vengeance.

Contendeh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 14:56 This is why the 70s were better than the 90s and today.
Even if you think the fighters then or now are better, you can’t argue that boxing wasn’t better then.

Ali and Frazier fought right away. Two tune ups for Ali...they didn’t putz around and “marinate” the thing like now or in the 90s with Bowe and Lewis.

There was less powerful promoters back then than there are now. Champions also had more leeway and could have a few gimme's here & there. The organizations were also a bit more understanding too--- they'd step aside long enough to allow things to happen.

What boxing, these days, lacks is a Don King. Hate him all you want, but he actually could organize undisputed championship tournaments and in Swift fashion. Promoters these days try to out-dick one another instead of help each other.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:01 Doubtful it gets THAT big again, but it could become a superfight again certainly. All depends on if he's able to rebound, and how he looks in doing it. If he beats Ruiz in a rematch by the skin of his teeth, I don't think anybody is gonna be too excited about him. He's gonna have to come back with a vengeance.

Idk. If he wins by the skin of his teeth in deep trench warfare by knockout, etc--- people would say (imho), "NOW THAT'S THE AJ I KNOW! THE ONE WHO CAN DIG DEEP AND COME BACK! JUST LIKE THE KLITSCHKO FIGHT!", and it's a trilogy. Which is even better for business.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:05 Idk. If he wins by the skin of his teeth in deep trench warfare by knockout, etc--- people would say (imho), "NOW THAT'S THE AJ I KNOW! THE ONE WHO CAN DIG DEEP AND COME BACK! JUST LIKE THE KLITSCHKO FIGHT!", and it's a trilogy. Which is even better for business.

Yeah if it's by KO. When I said by the skin of his teeth I was thinking more like, he looks unimpressive, and the judges bail him out. If it's a KO or something in a dramatic fight, yeah that will excite people definitely. It'll still seem like Wilder is gonna smash him though to everybody.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:13 Yeah if it's by KO. When I said by the skin of his teeth I was thinking more like, he looks unimpressive, and the judges bail him out. If it's a KO or something in a dramatic fight, yeah that will excite people definitely. It'll still seem like Wilder is gonna smash him though to everybody.

I'd lean towards Wilder, however, I think Deyonce has an iffy chin himself. If Joshua's a "5-6" out of ten on the chin scale, Wilder probably is a "6-7". Whoever can land first. I've heard many say Joshua hits as hard or harder than Wilder. I believe it.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:17 I'd lean towards Wilder, however, I think Deyonce has an iffy chin himself. If Joshua's a "5-6" out of ten on the chin scale, Wilder probably is a "6-7". Whoever can land first. I've heard many say Joshua hits as hard or harder than Wilder. I believe it.

No doubt, but Wilder is faster, and the fact that he hasn't been knocked out by any fat guys lately will definitely make him the betting favorite

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:03 There was less powerful promoters back then than there are now. Champions also had more leeway and could have a few gimme's here & there. The organizations were also a bit more understanding too--- they'd step aside long enough to allow things to happen.

What boxing, these days, lacks is a Don King. Hate him all you want, but he actually could organize undisputed championship tournaments and in Swift fashion. Promoters these days try to out-dick one another instead of help each other.

Yeah. There’s no center. Just fractions who refuse to come together because it pays for them not to.

Kings Tyson tournament was incredible. It created the center.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:18 No doubt, but Wilder is faster, and the fact that he hasn't been knocked out by any fat guys lately will definitely make him the betting favorite

It's fun no matter what. Both men fight with their chins in the air and throwing power punches. Wilder certainly would be the favorite, but, I think Joshua has the heart to get up and fight back hard. If Wilder was ever dropped I don't know if he'd be like that.

But I've always said Wilder was #2 behind Fury because he's so reckless and powerful it makes him awkwardly unorthodox. Fury is so unorthodox. Joshua's so textbook it's infuriating.

I wish he was still as aggressive as he was when he fought Johnson and even Whyte. Somewhere along the line he became too "reserved" for my tastes.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:18 No doubt, but Wilder is faster, and the fact that he hasn't been knocked out by any fat guys lately will definitely make him the betting favorite

It's not always just the chin.

Mental toughness and desire has to be factored in as to how a fighter responds to heavy shots.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 16:43 It's not always just the chin.

Mental toughness and desire has to be factored in as to how a fighter responds to heavy shots.

And Joshua just mentally folded against a fat guy, so again advantage Wilder.

I would prefer The Fat King of Boxing dispose of Wilder next. It could be in a Texas stadium and it would be huge.

A man’s gotta dream.