BoxRec

This isn't a kick Joshua while he's down thread, but in recent years it's become fashionable to pick him over Bruno in fantasy fights. I was wondering, now that we have a much more complete picture of AJ's strengths and weaknesses, how the forum thinks he would fare versus the Bruno who came to play versus Lennox Lewis.

What do you think?

Probably bruno but it would be close! Joshua was exposed badly last night but who knows!

overhand_right wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 15:49 This isn't a kick Joshua while he's down thread, but in recent years it's become fashionable to pick him over Bruno in fantasy fights. I was wondering, now that we have a much more complete picture of AJ's strengths and weaknesses, how the forum thinks he would fare versus the Bruno who came to play versus Lennox Lewis.

What do you think?

Bruno was at his peak that night but was still prone to getting chinned with one good one,50/50 i'd say.

The Joshua of the Klitschko fight would have beaten Bruno.

The Joshua of the Ruiz fight would have been hammered.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 16:01 The Joshua of the Klitschko fight would have beaten Bruno.

The Joshua of the Ruiz fight would have been hammered.

The thing is, if Bruno hurt Joshua like Klitschko did, could you imagine him letting him off the hook like Wladimir? When Bruno hurt you he was all over you; admittedly rabbit punching you as the house referee looked on approvingly.

I always compared Joshua to Bruno. Frank was something of a heartbreak just like Joshua was last night. It's a 50/50 fight. But I'd say Frank had better stamina and willingness to engage. Maybe a slightly better chin. Idk. We'll have to see how Joshua bounces back.

Once upon a time I completely written off Wladimir Klitschko and thought he'd never get anywhere. I was never so glad to be so wrong about a fighter.

As bad as Ruiz was for Joshua, it's not as bad as losing to guys like Ross Purrity. Then again, it's a strange thought. But it dawns on me if Vitali came back and fought Joshua last night there's a chance he'd of won.

Bruno would fall apart once caught clean and become frozen and then taken to pieces by follow up shots. He did not know how to hold on when hurt. But he never get spanked and dropped by single shots like AJ.

Interesting one but I think a huge weakness of AJ is that he is a manufactured fighter. An elite athlete who could have been a sprinter, a rugby player, anything at all but they just so happened to put gloves on his fists. He was clueless last night and had to ask McCraken what he meant by simple instructions and how to execute them, complete lack of boxing brain. Bruno compared was better schooled.

I said Bruno is better than Joshua and he is. Joshua isn't that good.

In some ways, Bruno got underrated. I know people who think that Bruno wasn't very good because he didn't beat Lewis or Tyson. That's like saying Tottenham Hotspurs were crap this season, because they weren't as good as Man City. He'd troubled Lewis in their fight, and Tyson in their first one.

Bruno was a good fighter, who's stamina and chin let him down at the elite level. (He was even fading against McCall.) But he could still beat most of the heavyweights in the division he was in.

I think he wasn't amongst the best, but was the best of the rest.

It would be intriguing - Bruno seemed to have the ability to hurt but never to "really hurt" fighters. He never really fought those top 5-10 fighters to test his level. There are a few but they were usually over the hill when they fought. I sort of discount the McCall fight as McCall was clearly bipolar who was having issues.

Did Bruno have true one punch KO power at Joshua's level...... I'm not sure. Joshua has shown in the past the ability to deliver a shot late in the fight..... so I think when saying Bruno had better stamina perhaps we are not looking at all of AJ's fights.

I'm inclined to see it as a repeat of Lewis vs Bruno actually - with Bruno winning, seemingly having AJ clueless, but then getting tagged..... but it wouldn't surprise me if Bruno won.

ILikeBeer wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 04:45 In some ways, Bruno got underrated. I know people who think that Bruno wasn't very good because he didn't beat Lewis or Tyson. That's like saying Tottenham Hotspurs were crap this season, because they weren't as good as Man City. He'd troubled Lewis in their fight, and Tyson in their first one.

Bruno was a good fighter, who's stamina and chin let him down at the elite level. (He was even fading against McCall.) But he could still beat most of the heavyweights in the division he was in.

I think he wasn't amongst the best, but was the best of the rest.

There's troubled and TROUBLED though. Yes he hurt them, were they close to getting stopped - nope. Shannon Briggs troubled Lewis also - probably more so than Bruno, but again wasn't close to stopping Lewis. His inability to stop Lewis (especially) was for me a big issue, one of the clear elements for why he was never truly elite.

I just wish he'd fought more of the top ten to really gauge his level. I wish he would have fought Mercer, Morrison, Rudduck et al.

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 10:09 There's troubled and TROUBLED though. Yes he hurt them, were they close to getting stopped - nope. Shannon Briggs troubled Lewis also - probably more so than Bruno, but again wasn't close to stopping Lewis.

I just wish he'd fought more of the top ten to really gauge his level. I wish he would have fought Mercer, Morrison, Rudduck et al.

It's a fair point.

The question is, was Bruno ever exposed the way Joshua was last night?

When Bruno was buzzed he fell apart immediately, I dont think he ever got though a crisis. Maybe Jumbo Cummings but that was only because the hell saved him.

ILikeBeer wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 10:18 It's a fair point.

The question is, was Bruno ever exposed the way Joshua was last night?

Well Tyson 2 aside, I think in some ways the Lewis fight he was hugely exposed. It might sound daft as I also see that as his best performance - but his sheer inability to work further openings when he troubled Lewis was almost as bad as his lack of survival skills when tagged and hurt by Lewis. Two of the big reasons why Bruno was never elite were shown in the last minute or so of that Lewis fight - and I'm not saying anything about his chin or stamina.

Yes Joshua was exposed, but at least Joshua has in the past showcased some balls, some survival instincts and some ability to finish off a hurt fighter and that's at top ten level - all in one fight I know and he hasn't really done that before or since. Bruno never did that at top ten level IMO.

As I said, I only wish we would have seen Bruno in a true winnable test. He seemed to either fight complete bums, past it former top tenners, excellent world champions or loose cannons...... never really someone like a Tony Tucker, Pinklon Thomas etc.

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 10:29 When Bruno was buzzed he fell apart immediately, I dont think he ever got though a crisis. Maybe Jumbo Cummings but that was only because the hell saved him.

Yes, he nearly fell apart vs McCall at the end - but McCall didn't buzz him.

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 10:34 Yes, he nearly fell apart vs McCall at the end - but McCall didn't buzz him.

That was just exhaustion!
Everyone gets exposed when they get smacked hard enough!

I think people are getting carried away.

Styles make fights, bruno fights nothing like ruiz who is a quick handed combination counter puncher.

Bruno would have been very vulnerable against a much bigger joshua.

Would Bruno have recovered from the knockdown Ruiz suffered?
And of course it is true about styles, stand up fighters suit Joshua much more.
For the tall long armed fighter you have to keep a Ruiz type at the end of the jab, fight effectively inside or tie the fella up.

I rate Joshua as a bigger, faster, stronger Bruno. Absolutely no shame in that for either. Rate them both to a certain level. Joshua wins.

overhand_right wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 16:06 The thing is, if Bruno hurt Joshua like Klitschko did, could you imagine him letting him off the hook like Wladimir? When Bruno hurt you he was all over you; admittedly rabbit punching you as the house referee looked on approvingly.

Yeah he was a filthy dirty bastard bruno, never seen anybody get away with so many rabbit punches.

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 10:09 I just wish he'd fought more of the top ten to really gauge his level. I wish he would have fought Mercer, Morrison, Rudduck et al.

The fight with Mercer in Hong Kong fell apart on the day. Tommy Morrison vs Herbie Hide for the WBO title as the main event. What a night that would have been! Difficult to predict what would have happened in Bruno/Mercer as we have no idea which version of El Merciless went over there.

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 11:04 Would Bruno have recovered from the knockdown Ruiz suffered?

No, I think that would have been the beginning of the end for Frank. I can't help but be impressed by how well he defended himself from Lewis's big power shots though. He only got belted in the 7th when he lost his composure and ran at Lewis.

I think that Bruno with that level of focus would land first, but who knows? I think we probably all agree that if Joshua can't take a power shot from Ruiz he can't take one from Bruno.

overhand_right wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 11:30 The fight with Mercer in Hong Kong fell apart on the day. Tommy Morrison vs Herbie Hide for the WBO title as the main event. What a night that would have been! Difficult to predict what would have happened in Bruno/Mercer as we have no idea which version of El Merciless went over there.

Think mercer may well have ruined frank if he was up for it, hard hard man he was.

overhand_right wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 11:35 No, I think that would have been the beginning of the end for Frank. I can't help but be impressed by how well he defended himself from Lewis's big power shots though. He only got belted in the 7th when he lost his composure and ran at Lewis.

I think that Bruno with that level of focus would land first, but who knows? I think we probably all agree that if Joshua can't take a power shot from Ruiz he can't take one from Bruno.

But Bruno always folded when buzzed, whereas in the past Joshua has come through crisis's

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 11:43 Think mercer may well have ruined frank if he was up for it, hard hard man he was.

If Mercer was fit and up for it, Bruno can't beat him. If he was the bloated guy who Ferguson and Marion Wilson outworked, Bruno can jab him to a 10-round decision. I think they actually weighed in, I'll have to look into that at some point, it will give us an idea of how serious Mercer was.