BoxRec

So on another thread I was looking into how Dillian Whyte had a very strong resume based on the WBC ranked opponents he had been facing. I was curious what Wilder's other opponents had done to justify their shot at the champion compared to Whyte. It was quite eye opening...

So I have looked at the ranking of Wilder's opponents, and the fights they had to get them their based on the WBC top 40 rankings of the time. It makes for some ugly reading:

Wilder #C - Chris Arreola #9 (July 2016)

• Arreola #13 – Kauffman #unranked (December 2015) NO CONTEST
  Arreola #13 – Fredd Kassi #unknown (July 2015) DRAW

Wilder #C – Gerald Washington #8 (February 2017)

• Gerald Washington #14 –Ray Austin #unranked (July 2016)
  Gerald Washington #18 - Eddie Chambers #unranked (May 2016)

Wilder #C – Bermaine Stiverne #1 (November 2017)

• Stiverne #4 – Derric Rossy #unranked (November 2015) - This guy had a record of 30-10-0
  Stiverne #C – Wilder #1? (January 2015)

Wilder #C – Ortiz #3 (March 2018)

• Ortiz #2 – Daniel Martz #unranked (December 2017)
  Ortiz leaves Eddie Hearn (Matchroom)
  Ortiz #unranked – Dave Allen #unranked (October 2017)
  Ortiz #unranked – Malik Scott #unranked (November 2017)

Wilder #C – Tyson Fury #3 (December 2018)

• Fury #7 – Francesco Pianeta #unranked (August 2018)
  Fury #unranked – Sefer Seferi #unranked (June 2018)

I could only go as far back as late 2015, due to not being able to find the records, but
It really looks like the WBC having been using their ranking system to legitimize Wilder's opponents since at least 2016.

Why don't you do the same for AJ during the same time period. Or is this just Wilder hating conspiracy theories.

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 16:54 Why don't you do the same for AJ during the same time period. Or is this just Wilder hating conspiracy theories.

Save the whataboutery sweetheart
Feel free to do it yourself though

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 16:56 Save the whataboutery sweetheart
Feel free to do it yourself though

It was a legitimate question, cupcake! I guess you're just a whyte dickrider.

the most blatant thing theyve done as far as this type of thing is make that 6 vs 12 blatant pbc final eliminator for wilder. lmao how do you even justify skipping all those other guys

He was about 6 or 7 title defenses deep before he started fighting legitimate Top 10 guys. I mean guys that are seen as Top 10 by honest observers, not title organizations where the rankings are bought and sold.

It was probably a good thing though. Wilder has noticeably improved. He's still flawed, but he's better than he was when he first won the title.

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:05 the most blatant thing theyve done as far as this type of thing is make that 6 vs 12 blatant pbc final eliminator for wilder. lmao how do you even justify skipping all those other guys

None of the ABC's are very good at getting the right guys their shots. The WBC seems to be getting worse, especially in light of this "franchise" tag on Canelo. Whyte will have his day so long as he gets past Rivas, but he'll have to wait until after Fury/Wilder II if that happens. The big problem for me is that it seems the WBC is punishing Whyte for his candid words on them. Sulaiman has a thin skin. Freakin' egos.

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 16:59 It was a legitimate question, cupcake! I guess you're just a whyte dickrider.

Strange, I thought you had me pegged as a Fury fan because I argued with you and Ironbeard that he beat Wilder...
Now I'm a Whyte dickrider?
Do you know what an ad hominem is?
You need try harder than that.

As I say, if you have a problem with Joshua's record, you are at liberty to post it up. Otherwise it's irrelevant to the thread beyond being an obvious derailing tactic.

Alternatively you can defend Wilder's record

gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:08 He was about 6 or 7 title defenses deep before he started fighting legitimate Top 10 guys. I mean guys that are seen as Top 10 by honest observers, not title organizations where the rankings are bought and sold.

It was probably a good thing though. Wilder has noticeably improved. He's still flawed, but he's better than he was when he first won the title.

You are referring to Ortiz?
I agree he is/was legitimate top 10, ignoring ABC rankings. But those 6 defences prior to that covered a 3 year period...

Not sure it would be accurate for me to suggest people were confident in Fury being legitimate top 10 until after his comeback performance against Wilder. I recall most thinking it was a suicidal fight to take at that stage of his comeback.

Going back to taking 6 defences before facing a legitimate contender. The WBC heavyweight title is meant to be the most prestigious belt in the eyes of many fans. How can that run be justified by them? Especially given how they were seemingly rigging the rankings.

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:22 You are referring to Ortiz?
I agree he is/was legitimate top 10, ignoring ABC rankings. But those 6 defences prior to that covered a 3 year period...

Not sure of people were confident in Fury being legitimate top 10 until his comeback performance against Wilder. I recall most thinking it was a suicidal fight to take at that stage of his comeback.

Going back to taking 6-7 defences before facing a legitimate contender. The WBC heavyweight title is meant to be the most prestigious belt in the eyes of many fans. How can that run be justified by them? Especially given how they were seemingly rigging the rankings.

Yes Ortiz was the 1st Top 10 ranked opponent in his reign. Fury was probably at least Top 5 going into their fight just by default of the fact that he was the returning lineal Champion.

Breazeale was either #9, 10 or just outside of it when he fought Wilder. So I'll give it to Wilder on that, and of course Ortiz is still Top 10 for the rematch, as is Fury.

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:15 Strange, I thought you had me pegged as a Fury fan because I argued with you and Ironbeard that he beat Wilder...
Now I'm a Whyte dickrider?
Do you know what an ad hominem is?
You need try harder than that.

As I say, if you have a problem with Joshua's record, you are at liberty to post it up. Otherwise it's irrelevant to the thread beyond being an obvious derailing tactic.

Alternatively you can defend Wilder's record

I'm defending no one here. Whyte earned a shot. No promoter is letting that happen. Hearn didn't either. I just found it interesting you focus on the WBC only. Are you new to boxing? Whyte isn't the first guy to have to wait for his shot.

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:22 You are referring to Ortiz?
I agree he is/was legitimate top 10, ignoring ABC rankings. But those 6 defences prior to that covered a 3 year period...

Not sure it would be accurate for me to suggest people were confident in Fury being legitimate top 10 until after his comeback performance against Wilder. I recall most thinking it was a suicidal fight to take at that stage of his comeback.

Going back to taking 6 defences before facing a "legitimate" contender. The WBC heavyweight title is meant to be the most prestigious belt in the eyes of many fans. How can that run be justified by them? Especially given how they were seemingly rigging the rankings.

Most folks here (not me to be honest) picked Fury to beat Wilder, so yeah, he was considered a legitimate top 10 going into that fight. Even those who picked Wilder considered Fury top 10.

im not sure about that, i think wilder was the fave here

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:15 im not sure about that, i think wilder was the fave here

If he was, I'm sure it wasn't overwhelmingly in his favor. Maybe EO will take some time and dig up the old posts.

If you are referring to here on the boxrec forum I think your memory is perhaps playing tricks on you.

Before pianeta maybe you could find one person, you were lucky to find two who favoured Fury in threads.

Think it would be more accurate to say some saw Fury's route to victory being last the 12 and winning on points, but the vast majority gave him very little actual chance of making it to the end of the fight. And a lot didn't even give him that much credit.

After pianeta again I only saw one or two die hard Fury fans who picked Fury to win in each thread.

Looking back the polls had it closer, but Wilder was still the favourite (and people can vote after the fight so not sure can use the polls).

And my feeling was as the fight got closer people started to let themselves dream a little in regards to Fury's chances.

I'm a fury fan and I know I did, but with distance I didn't give him much chance of surviving to the end. I thought it was a fight too soon. That was the impression I got from a fair few hard core British fans too.

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:19 If you are referring to here on the boxrec forum I think your memory is perhaps playing tricks on you.

Before pianeta maybe you could find one person, you were lucky to find two who favoured Fury in threads.

Think it would be more accurate to say some saw Fury's route to victory being last the 12 and winning on points, but the vast majority gave him very little actual chance of making it to the end of the fight. And a lot didn't even give him that much credit.

After pianeta again I only saw one or two die hard Fury fans who picked Fury to win in each thread.

Looking back the polls had it closer, but Wilder was still the favourite (and people can vote after the fight so not sure can use the polls).

And my feeling was as the fight got closer people started to let themselves dream a little in regards to Fury's chances.

I'm a fury fan and I know I did, but with distance I didn't give him much chance of surviving to the end. I thought it was a fight too soon. That was the impression I got from a fair few hard core British fans too.

Which is it?

in the 4 polls ive been able to quickly search, wilder was favoured in all, by a close margin. he was the 'official' betting fave too

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:24 in the 4 polls ive been able to quickly search, wilder was favoured in all, by a close margin

So no "vast majority" who didn't give Fury a chance. There was too much 'debate' leading up to the fight to make anyone think that Fury wasn't a legitimate top 10 HW at the time.

I most definitely favored him, and would still pick him in a rematch honestly, but I acknowledge the very real possibility of Fury outboxing him to a UD as well.

ya no vast majority, but no fury being favorite either, wilder was favorite with forums and the bookies

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:28 ya no vast majority, but no fury being favorite either

Fair enough.

I'd figure Fury would be the slight favorite in a rematch. Might be even, but I'd imagine bookies would make him the slight favorite. Depends on what else they do, and how they look prior to the rematch being announced I guess. Like they say, you're only as good as your last fight, and right now in that regard, they're both smelling like a rose.

I should say the vast majority of actual posts favoured Wilder.

The polls showed it to be closer, but again, I can go back and still vote in those polls, so I would have to say what people actually wrote is the more reliable bell weather

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:37 I should say the vast majority of actual posts favoured Wilder.

The polls showed it to be closer, but again, I can go back and still vote in those polls, so I would have to say what people actually wrote is the more reliable bell weather

Whatever makes you happy. I'm certainly not going to go back and count the posts in favor of one fighter or another!

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:40 Whatever makes you happy. I'm certainly not going to go back and count the posts in favor of one fighter or another!

Well if you ever have a bout of late night OCD...