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Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 13:12
by Brian Seneca
What If Ali isn’t stripped. Frazier would have been a mandatory by then. I know Ali was fleet of foot and hand speed at this stage, but I honestly think Joe gives him trouble in any decade. I lean Ali split decision. Joe maybe too green at this point. Thoughts?
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 14:07
by DrDuke
In 1968 Frazier had already been in prime.
Smokin' Joe by the decision.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 15:05
by SteveO
In a 1968 contest Frazier would have had his moments but Ali was only getting better at that stage and would have been in his prime.
I think Ali would have been too fast for Smokin' Joe and cruised to a points win or even a late stoppage.
Sadly, we'll never know.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 15:08
by oogiebe
SteveO wrote: ↑04 Jul 2019, 15:05
In a 1968 contest Frazier would have had his moments but Ali was only getting better at that stage and would have been in his prime.
I think Ali would have been too fast for Smokin' Joe and cruised to a points win or even a late stoppage.
Sadly, we'll never know.
x2
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 18:03
by hhaehre
Frazier by decision if I had to pick a winner, but in reality these two would always fight each other to a standstill. A perfect matchup if there ever was one.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 18:36
by oogiebe
hhaehre wrote: ↑04 Jul 2019, 18:03
Frazier by decision if I had to pick a winner, but in reality these two would always fight each other to a standstill. A perfect matchup if there ever was one.
Prime Ali was levels above the Ali that Frazier fought in the fight of the century. Frazier wouldn't land a glove on him.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 19:21
by Duran1970
I agree that it was a slower Ali post exile but I disagree that Frazier wouldn't have had a chance...Joe had the style to always give Ali problems...
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 19:35
by oogiebe
Duran1970 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2019, 19:21
I agree that it was a slower Ali post exile but I disagree that Frazier wouldn't have had a chance...Joe had the style to always give Ali problems...
I disagree. Ali was ridiculous pre-ban and getting better.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 21:33
by Duran1970
Susceptible to a left hooker...see Henry Cooper.. Frazier was special......just finished reading The Greatest my own story and Ali admits that Joe would always have given him a battle at any point in his career due to his style... finally showed joe respect after Manila
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 21:37
by oogiebe
Duran1970 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2019, 21:33
Susceptible to a left hooker...see Henry Cooper.. Frazier was special......just finished reading The Greatest my own story and Ali admits that Joe would always have given him a battle at any point in his career due to his style... finally showed joe respect after Manila
Ali always heaped gobs of praise on guys he beat, especially if they gave him a tough time. I stick to my earlier statement.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 23:28
by elmersalsa
Any of the two could win. No shame on the loser.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 23:28
by elmersalsa
Any of the two could win. No shame on the loser.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 05 Jul 2019, 00:58
by Onetimeonly
I dont think younger Ali could have taken all that punishment against an even better Frazier. Joe by stoppage in 11.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 06 Jul 2019, 08:26
by Brian Seneca
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 00:58
I dont think younger Ali could have taken all that punishment against an even better Frazier. Joe by stoppage in 11.
Wow! This surprises me. I don’t disagree. Interesting observation. No one had roughed up this version.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 10 Jul 2019, 16:56
by Ambling Alp II
There is no evidence at all that he couldn't take the punishment. Why would have got more durable after a long layoff and he got older? Makes no sense.
It's a moot point anyway. Frazier would be hitting him a lot less. A past his best Ali beat Frazier 2 out of 3.
A prime Ali against a version of Frazier who had not quite reached his prime. Ali by late stoppage or lopsided decision. Frazier would not win more than 4 rounds.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 08:17
by Onetimeonly
Frazier wasn't prime in their first fight.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 10:37
by Ambling Alp II
He wasn't? huh?
Then when was he?
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 11:24
by Onetimeonly
Before he broke his ankle.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 11:28
by Onetimeonly
They were both close enough, just a rebuttal for all the excuse makers. Like yourself.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 11:30
by gilgamesh
It's interesting to ponder. I think it would've been similarly great to the 1st bout, and I think it'd be a competitive enough matchup that if they fought multiple times between say 68 and 70 instead of 71 and 75 they would've split victories against each other as well.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 12:17
by keithmoonhangover
Prime before the ban Ali, had better footwork, faster reflexes and was just a better boxer.
That version beats any prime heavyweight ever IMO.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 14:29
by cfang
Ive changed my mind on this one. Always thought pre ban ali would be too fast etc for frazier but when you look at ali's defences pre ban, yes he won easy but the guys he fought were either not that great or on the downside. Foley, williams, patterson all fall into that category while cooper, mildenberger, london, etc were not quite top class. The next generation of heavys were all better imo and ali and frazier had similar results against them all.
I suspect it may pan out a bit like what actually happened anyway, With frazier shocking ali, a more cautious ali winning the rematch and then the decider being a toss up.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 15:36
by Ambling Alp II
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑11 Jul 2019, 11:24
Before he broke his ankle.
Surprising that he ever walked again.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 15:40
by Ambling Alp II
cfang wrote: ↑11 Jul 2019, 14:29
Ive changed my mind on this one. Always thought pre ban ali would be too fast etc for frazier but when you look at ali's defences pre ban, yes he won easy but the guys he fought were either not that great or on the downside. Foley, williams, patterson all fall into that category while cooper, mildenberger, london, etc were not quite top class. The next generation of heavys were all better imo and ali and frazier had similar results against them all.
I suspect it may pan out a bit like what actually happened anyway, With frazier shocking ali, a more cautious ali winning the rematch and then the decider being a toss up.
Well, Ali did a lot better against foreman.
Past his best Ali won 2 out of 3.
And Ali was a much better fighter in the 1960s than in the 1970s. Therefore, Ali would have won a easier in the 1960s.
It's pretty much that simple.
Re: Ali vs Frazier 1968
Posted: 11 Jul 2019, 16:54
by Onetimeonly
