BoxRec

my guess is there were at least not more
than a handful ...

I don't think he's P4P Top 10 anymore, and hasn't been for the last few years. If he is it's just based on legacy, and not recent performances.

If he beats Thurman though he's probably back on it.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:18 I don't think he's P4P Top 10 anymore, and hasn't been for the last few years.

he is here on boxrec.

man wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:22

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:18 I don't think he's P4P Top 10 anymore, and hasn't been for the last few years.

he is here on boxrec.

I'm talking about real P4P lists.

Boxrec's rankings system is wonky as hell.

Maybe Foreman would have been list worthy after beating Moorer.

Certainly Hopkins deserved strong consideration when he was still picking up belts in his 40s.

But P4P ratings differ. There's no ranking that's set in stone and is the absolute final word.

I'm sure somebody's P4P list includes Pacquiao. And other's don't.

I don't feel that Pacquiao has done enough in recent years to be placed on the list. But as Gil said, if he beats Thurman, then he warrants consideration.

man wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:14is pac at 40 the oldest p4p10 ever?

my guess is there were at least not more
than a handful ...

It’s been more than two years since Manny Pacquiao has been regarded as a member of the mythical top-ten pound-for-pound elite (ESPN and The RING).

Bernard Hopkins was still in his forties when was considered as the very best fighter amongst their top-ten pound-for-pound list, which was when he was dethroned of his undisputed middleweight championship in 2005 by Jermain Taylor.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:40I don't feel that Pacquiao has done enough in recent years to be placed on the list. But as Gil said, if he beats Thurman, then he warrants consideration.

If Pacquiao beats Thurman, it’ll be a remarkable achievement, to the point that many would be persuaded to consider him as being an all-time-great (or at least solidify his status).

That being said, beating Thurman shouldn’t warrant inclusion in the current top-ten pound-for-pound list, since the American is injury prone, has been inactive and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance within the last three years.

And I’m not intentionally trying to undermine Thurman’s credibility either, but it’s undeniable that ‘One Time’ is out-of-form and isn’t considered as the best fighter in his own weight class, since he’s universally regarded as being inferior to the likes of Spence Jr. and Crawford.

I don't view either Pac or Thurman as top 10 P4P currently.

Thurman undoubtedly has the talent to join the list (wins over Porter and Garcia are very very credible wins) but as you say, his inactivity over the past 2 years (save for the win over tough gatekeeper Lopez) disqualifies him at the moment.

And Pacquiao really hasn't been top 10 for years. Maybe going back as far as Marquez 3, his performances usually lack consistency.

But whoever emerges victorious on July 20, especially if it's an emphatic win, should be in the discussion. Both fighters are still formidable, and a win shouldn't be dismissed and explained away with the usual fan spin.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:59

SenorPipino wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:40I don't feel that Pacquiao has done enough in recent years to be placed on the list. But as Gil said, if he beats Thurman, then he warrants consideration.

If Pacquiao beats Thurman, it’ll be a remarkable achievement, to the point that many would be persuaded to consider him as being an all-time-great (or at least solidify his status).

That being said, beating Thurman shouldn’t warrant inclusion in the current top-ten pound-for-pound list, since the American is injury prone, has been inactive and hasn’t delivered an impressive performance within the last three years.

And I’m not intentionally trying to undermine Thurman’s credibility either, but it’s undeniable that ‘One Time’ is out-of-form and isn’t considered as the best fighter in his own weight class, since he’s universally regarded as being inferior to the likes of Spence Jr. and Crawford.

Further solidify his status is all he can do really at this point. He's already one of the most Legendary Boxing figures of modern times as is. But considering his age, and all that, this would be one of his biggest career victories if he can pull it off, and that's saying something because he's fought a murderer's row of opponents in his career.

...in spite of several hickups on his resume, the achievements of Philippines based boxer are second to none...whether that qualifies him for the P4p10 is sort of irrelevant...

greg wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 14:41 ...in spite of several hickups on his resume, the achievements of Philippines based boxer are second to none...whether that qualifies him for the P4p10 is sort of irrelevant...

The most important list really as far as the business of Boxing goes is "Who are the 10 biggest draws in the sport?" as in, who's gonna make you the most money? Pac is still on that list, and that's more important because that's a list you can take to the bank

manny is easily an atg already

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 15:31

greg wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 14:41 ...in spite of several hickups on his resume, the achievements of Philippines based boxer are second to none...whether that qualifies him for the P4p10 is sort of irrelevant...

The most important list really as far as the business of Boxing goes is "Who are the 10 biggest draws in the sport?" as in, who's gonna make you the most money? Pac is still on that list, and that's more important because that's a list you can take to the bank

Can't argue with that!

jamamb wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 15:38 manny is easily an atg already

Without a doubt. He was already an ATG a decade ago.

Probably the #1 Asian boxer of all time or at the very least you can't have that conversation without his name coming into it.

Pacquiao has been a great champion, but right now, he might be between #30 and #40 p4p.

Hopkins for me.
He did really well with the fights at LHW on offer to him. He was fortunate that the surge of Eastern European fighters hadn't quite hit the top apart from Kov. And there was never a chance Stevenson's protectors would have let those two fight.
I do agree that if Pac beats Thurman, he is back in the top #10.
That's a BIG if though.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:18 I don't think he's P4P Top 10 anymore, and hasn't been for the last few years. If he is it's just based on legacy, and not recent performances.

If he beats Thurman though he's probably back on it.

Agreed, I think Hopkins was there though.

Yeah, Hopkins for sure. Probably could have listed him top 10 after his win over Pascal (and before being shown up by Dawson), when he had to be like 45.

I have Pac in top 20 right now. But maybe I'll even put him in the top 10. It depends on if he wins Thurman and how he does that. Anyway Pac is obviously a phenomenal athlete. He competes in the lower weights, he had so much wars, he was knocked out cold, yet he is more than just credible while being 40.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 23:27

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Jul 2019, 12:18 I don't think he's P4P Top 10 anymore, and hasn't been for the last few years. If he is it's just based on legacy, and not recent performances.

If he beats Thurman though he's probably back on it.

Agreed, I think Hopkins was there though.

For sure he would've been when he was beating Tarver and Pavlik. He was around 42 or 43 when he fought those fights right?

He fights once a year and lost to a bum from Australia a couple years ago. How is he p4p. This ain’t 2009

Luckybattles wrote: ↑06 Jul 2019, 12:08 He fights once a year and lost to a bum from Australia a couple years ago. How is he p4p. This ain’t 2009

This is his second fight this year.

Granted, Pac didn't shine, but the Australian decision was very very dodgy. Ask Teddy Atlas.

Lol. I know. I’m just being cynical. He should have destroyed that guy horn though.

Is this conversational thread still going? Pacquaio isn't currently regarded as a top-ten pound-for-pounder.

Luckybattles wrote: ↑06 Jul 2019, 13:28 Lol. I know. I’m just being cynical. He should have destroyed that guy horn though.

I think one thing to remember about him, when people talk about how he should've been more effective against some guys, gotten more knockouts, is that he could have stopped moving up and settled in at like his fifth or sixth weight class of his career instead of spanning across freakin' eleven of 'em. (Would have even been twelve if he'd started at minimumweight, which is apparently what he really weighed when he turned pro.) So when he was fighting guys like Mosley and Clottey and Bradley to decision at welterweight, I'd say he could have been knocking out guys like Juan Manuel Lopez or Chris John or Orlando Salido around featherweight, if that's the route he'd wanted to take.