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Richie Kates: how do you guys judge him as a fighter?
Posted: 27 Aug 2019, 15:11
by JohnReed
I'm interested in the career of this mid-to-late 1970s lightheavyweight contender. Personally, I think he was pretty damned good. Just one degree removed from the elite eight guys who ruled the division during the late 1970s.
Before the late 1970s, before the arrival of monsters like Saad Muhammad, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Qawi, Mike Spinks, James Scott, Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez and others, Kates was practically the the world's best contender at 175 lbs. By "mid-70s" I'm talking about the heyday of John Conteh and Victor Galindez. In my book, Kates ranks just below that pair in his division until 1977 or 1978.
What do you guys think? I'm especially interested in the views of Paragraph King, that dude here whose views are so authoritative that he doesn't need to use paragraph breaks, like mere mortals do. Almost everyone else knows that person by the name Klompton.
But most fans here have something worth hearing about Kates, so go ahead...give me your views about him.
Re: Richie Kates: how do you guys judge him as a fighter?
Posted: 28 Aug 2019, 16:00
by Ambling Alp II
I thought he was pretty good. There didn't seem to be one great thing about him, but he was pretty solid. Had some power, some boxing ability. He had some decent wins.
Re: Richie Kates: how do you guys judge him as a fighter?
Posted: 28 Aug 2019, 19:42
by JohnReed
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Aug 2019, 16:00
I thought he was pretty good. There didn't seem to be one great thing about him, but he was pretty solid. Had some power, some boxing ability. He had some decent wins.
Did you notice any particular tactics that Kates used to win his fights? For example, was he known for doing any specific kind of feinting?
Certainly Kates could jab, and he could follow up with a straight cross right down the pike. Kates could set his punches up with that stiff, straight jab for sure. But I'm looking for evidence that Richie had some old time feinting skills. I'm hoping the "boxing puritans" on this board can answer that question for me.
Concerning Kates's power, it was underrated. I'm convinced that Kates carried pretty good power, especially in his right.
Re: Richie Kates: how do you guys judge him as a fighter?
Posted: 02 Sep 2019, 06:21
by bennie
Kates was a world class operator just shy of the ability to topple the very best but in my opinion Victor Galindez essentially bailed out against him when he picked up a bad cut from a clash of heads in the third round of their world title encounter in South Africa in 1976. Galindez, the defending WBA light-heavyweight champion and the WBA's blue-eyed boy, turned away and walked to his corner, where he was allowed to remain for several chaotic minutes before everybody was satisfied that he could continue. What a joke! Referee Stanley Christodoulou, another blue-eyed boy with the WBA, should have waved it off immediately, much like referee Carlos Padilla waved it off when John Mugabi turned his back on Duane Thomas many moons later, but Christodoulou totally indulged the Argentine fighter and his camp. Galindez came back to finish a dispirited Kates with one second remaining of their 15-rounder but boxing was the bigger loser, even though Galindez did give Kates a rematch a year later in Italy and won again, this time on a unanimous decision.
Kates never brought anything too subtle to a boxing ring but he worked hard behind the jab and dropped in plenty of right hands, the occasional sneaky left hook or body attack. I'm not sure abut any "feints". Richie set a good tempo and was working too consistently to kid an opponent with feints. Moreover, he had enough power to keep his opponents thinking so he didn't need the Willie Pep approach to his fights. He climbed up from a heavy knockdown at the hands of Matthew Saad Muhammad in a Philadelphia thriller in 1978 to drop him heavily in return with a beautiful right but the bell came to Saad's aid and he recovered and subsequently poured it on to force a six-round stoppage, although Richie's durability usually held out.
Richie was linked to John Conteh over here a couple of times, after Conteh had lost his world title outside the ring, but obviously the 10-rounders never materialised and Conteh would probably have outjabbed Kates on the way to a decision, much like James Scott took away Kates' jab on the way to a 10-round stoppage in Rahway in 1979, when Scott was on fire. Kates certainly mixed it with the some serious names in a career that kicked off in 1969 and continued to 1983 and he licked the likes of Pierre Fourie, Jerry Martin, Len Hutchins, Don Fullmer, Jimmy Dupree, Murray Sutherland and Jeff Lampkin, which speaks for itself. The man had talent and hopefully made himself a few quid because ultimately he suffered from a trait that affects so many quality fighters and their earning potential: he was unfashionable.
Re: Richie Kates: how do you guys judge him as a fighter?
Posted: 02 Sep 2019, 08:02
by Flump
bennie wrote: ↑02 Sep 2019, 06:21
Kates was a world class operator just shy of the ability to topple the very best but in my opinion Victor Galindez essentially bailed out against him when he picked up a bad cut from a clash of heads in the third round of their world title encounter in South Africa in 1976. Galindez, the defending WBA light-heavyweight champion and the WBA's blue-eyed boy, turned away and walked to his corner, where he was allowed to remain for several chaotic minutes before everybody was satisfied that he could continue. What a joke! Referee Stanley Christodoulou, another blue-eyed boy with the WBA, should have waved it off immediately, much like referee Carlos Padilla waved it off when John Mugabi turned his back on Duane Thomas many moons later, but Christodoulou totally indulged the Argentine fighter and his camp. Galindez came back to finish a dispirited Kates with one second remaining of their 15-rounder but boxing was the bigger loser, even though Galindez did give Kates a rematch a year later in Italy and won again, this time on a unanimous decision.
Kates never brought anything too subtle to a boxing ring but he worked hard behind the jab and dropped in plenty of right hands, the occasional sneaky left hook or body attack. I'm not sure abut any "feints". Richie set a good tempo and was working too consistently to kid an opponent with feints. Moreover, he had enough power to keep his opponents thinking so he didn't need the Willie Pep approach to his fights. He climbed up from a heavy knockdown at the hands of Matthew Saad Muhammad in a Philadelphia thriller in 1978 to drop him heavily in return with a beautiful right but the bell came to Saad's aid and he recovered and subsequently poured it on to force a six-round stoppage, although Richie's durability usually held out.
Richie was linked to John Conteh over here a couple of times, after Conteh had lost his world title outside the ring, but obviously the 10-rounders never materialised and Conteh would probably have outjabbed Kates on the way to a decision, much like James Scott took away Kates' jab on the way to a 10-round stoppage in Rahway in 1979, when Scott was on fire. Kates certainly mixed it with the some serious names in a career that kicked off in 1969 and continued to 1983 and he licked the likes of Pierre Fourie, Jerry Martin, Len Hutchins, Don Fullmer, Jimmy Dupree, Murray Sutherland and Jeff Lampkin, which speaks for itself. The man had talent and hopefully made himself a few quid because ultimately he suffered from a trait that affects so many quality fighters and their earning potential: he was unfashionable.
Excellent read bennie.

Richie Kates...how good was he?
Posted: 20 Nov 2019, 01:32
by AntonioMartin
I'm curious..let me hear it!!
Re: Richie Kates...how good was he?
Posted: 20 Nov 2019, 09:32
by bennie
Very good but colourless, in that he just didn't raise anyone's pulse rate.