BoxRec

What a total farce, crookery all round. Exactly the type of thing Teddy Atlas talks about, promoters taking officials out for dinner and so on. If Edwards had finished Martinez like that, does anyone seriously believe Sulliman climbs in the ring like fckn Vince McMahon to overturn the official result!?

The BBBoC do not allow video replay. Sulliman says WBC rules do, and thus supercede BBBoC?

And why is overturning a decision not a formal process of appeal and subsequent independent panel review? Instead Eddie Hearn has a word in his ear and the WBC president just climbs in the ring and decides for himself?

What an utterly farcical state of affairs.

I'm not sure there was corruption, perhaps Hearn did influence his decision, but i think it was about incompetence more than corruption.

The WBC allows instant replays, fine, but the WBC president should not be the judge and jury. The referee, after watching the playback and consulting with the ringside judges, should make the decision. There must be some proper due process, even if the ruling is taken on the spot.

Sulliman should have nothing to do with it.

ALI wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 20:45 I'm not sure there was corruption, perhaps Hearn did influence his decision, but i think it was about incompetence more than corruption.

Should Sulliman be allowed to make an immediate on the spot decision like that? The WBC allows instant replays, fine, but the WBC president should not be the judge and jury. The referee, after watching the playback and consulting with the ringside judges, should make the decision. There must be some proper due process.

Sulliman should have nothing to do with it.

Indeed, fvcking backhander from Hearn and the guy climbs in the ring and decides for himself after watching a big screen replay!? That should warrant a criminal.imvestigation. Where's the due process? Absolutely stinks.

Ricky wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 20:50

ALI wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 20:45 I'm not sure there was corruption, perhaps Hearn did influence his decision, but i think it was about incompetence more than corruption.

Should Sulliman be allowed to make an immediate on the spot decision like that? The WBC allows instant replays, fine, but the WBC president should not be the judge and jury. The referee, after watching the playback and consulting with the ringside judges, should make the decision. There must be some proper due process.

Sulliman should have nothing to do with it.

Indeed, fvcking backhander from Hearn and the guy climbs in the ring and decides for himself after watching a big screen replay!? That should warrant a criminal.imvestigation. Where's the due process? Absolutely stinks.

If you watch the end of the fight, Morrie goes straight up to Martinez and calms him down with his hands. As in, don't celebrate.
So despite your conspiracy theory, I think the decision to make it a no contest was immediate and without Eddie having to put out.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 22:06

Ricky wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 20:50


Indeed, fvcking backhander from Hearn and the guy climbs in the ring and decides for himself after watching a big screen replay!? That should warrant a criminal.imvestigation. Where's the due process? Absolutely stinks.

If you watch the end of the fight, Morrie goes straight up to Martinez and calms him down with his hands. As in, don't celebrate.
So despite your conspiracy theory, I think the decision to make it a no contest was immediate and without Eddie having to put out.

Immediate? How can it be immediate - they announced the fight, gave the guy the belt and did several interviews. One of them was with Hearn stating that the BBBoC don't use Vid Replays so they would appeal the decision with the WBC then miraculously Sulliman grabs the mic a few minutes later and says he's changing it to a no contest. Let's just make the rules up as they go along.

Time to over turn a few other results... Maybe ones where a fighter has failed a drugs test...

Nothing wrong with it in my opinion, I watched the espn broadcast and they all thought it was the right call.

It was going to get appealed anyway, you'd have to be pretty naive if you think there wasn't going to be any action against that foul. It was unconventional by Sulliman but it cut out a lot of red tape.

Martinez was a fool.

Absolutely right about if it was Edward's winning in that fashion. The result would have stood all day long.

Complete farce ! Roberto Duran's win over Buchanan should be reversed too.

Clearthat he hit him when he was on one knee. Should be a DQ if anything

Are the WBO going to No Contest the Breidas v Glowacki fight ? That was without doubt the worse use of an elbow I have ever seen. Home fighter gets the benefit, same with Edwards but in reverse.

What else would you expect from the WBC? Sulaiman is a chip off the old block, and what he did is against the WBC rules, unless they have updated their rules. It wouldn't surprise me.

As far as 'the most corrupt thing you've ever seen', no no no my friend. Make yourself a brew, put your paws up, and have a read of this:

The WBC was formed in the early 60s by promoter George Panasus to represent the many Mexican boxers who weren’t getting a fair treatment from the WBA (then known as the NBA). Sulaiman Sr got the top job in 1975 and quickly made himself “President-for-life”.

Sulaiman Sr decided immediate rematches were 'unethical' so, in 1978, broke up the undisputed heavyweight title when he stripped Leon Spinks for fighting Muhammad Ali (in a Bob Arum promoted rematch). He awarded the WBC belt to Don King’s Ken Norton so he could defend it against Don King’s Larry Holmes. Sulaiman, however, did not strip Don King’s Roberto Duran in 1980 for fighting an immediate rematch with Leonard as this rematch was “for the good of boxing”…

Sulaiman’s actions with Spinks and Ali sent the division into confusion and disarray until Tyson cleaned up the mess nearly a decade later.

Sulaiman was, in 1983, responsible for cutting championship fights from 15 rounds down to 12 rounds, citing the Duk Koo Kim fatality as the reason. Kim was in fact only the third fatality to happen in those final three rounds since the 1920s (Ernie Schaff in 33 and Jup Elze in 68), with all the other fatalities actually occurring within Sulaiman's new 12 rd limit. Many of boxing’s most epic scenes took place in those championship rounds of 13, 14 and 15, including Ali/Frazier III, Marciano/Walcott, Holmes/Norton, Weaver/Tate, Louis/Conn, Leonard/Hearns, LaMotta/Dauthille, Robinson/LaMotta VI, Pryor/Arguello, etc. What great dramas have we been deprived of thanks to the WBC? We'll never know.

Sulaiman ‘erased’ a loss on Julio Cesar Chavez’s record – he had been disqualified against Miguel Ruiz in Mexico but Sulaiman altered the result to a KO1 to preserve his huge undefeated record.

Sulaiman allowed Sugar Ray Leonard to simultaneously challenge for the newly-created WBC super middle belt AND opponent Donny LaLonde’s WBC light heavy belt, despite it being against the WBC’s own rules and neither man being ranked in their super middle top 10.

He also allowed Julio Cesar Chavez to retain two division titles at the same time despite it being against WBC rules.

Sulaiman wanted to strip a promoter and everyone involved in an IBF title fight between Graciano Rocchigiani and Sugarboy Malinga as Malinga was a South African. He refused to rank Francesco Damiani for two years because he fought Johnny DuPlooy. They forbade Jake LaMotta from evem attending any WBC functions simply for being photographed shaking hands with South African Brian Mitchell, who had denounced Apartheid! And yet despite all this Sulaiman never took the same stance with Don King, who had promoted Gerrie Coetzee in a number of fights and had even sent Greg Page over to Sun City to box him!

In the late 80s Sulaiman created a whole load of new sanctioning fees when he invented the ‘international titles’ – and in the inaugural vacant WBC international featherweight title Miguel Francia fought as a lightweight! We have Sulaiman Sr to thank for the endless proliferation of silly belts. Thanks Jose!

Sulaiman immediately refused to recognise Buster Douglas as champion after his win over Don King’s Mike Tyson, due to a contrived long count controversy – despite their own WBC Code of Ethics instructing “to regard the decisions of the referee and judges as final” – Sulaiman later backed down claiming it was a ‘mistake’ after worldwide media condemnation. He tried arrange an immediate rematch despite immediate rematches being against WBC rules and him taking a firm stance against them whenever the fighters involved were under Don King.

Sulaiman ordered WBC champ Bobby Chacon not to defend his title against number one ranked Cornelias Boza Edwards but instead against Don King’s number two contender Hector Camacho – and accept King’s offer of 150K or get stripped! Chacon instead fought CBE for 400k and the WBC opted to strip him – for fighting their own number one contender!

In 1990, two-time world heavyweight champ and independently ranked number 4 heavyweight Tim Witherspoon had a $25 million lawsuit against Don King, Sulaiman ranked Spoon way down at a ridiculous 18 – under men Spoon had beaten!

Sulaiman made Don King’s Mike Tyson the number one contender the day after Duva fighter Holyfield KOd Douglas, and decreed he must make his first defence against Tyson – despite the fact Holyfield was entitled under WBC rules a full year before he took on his mandatory. When Don King’s Tyson was champ he was allowed to keep Duva’s Holyfield waiting for way over the one year time frame.

Sulaiman also came close to breaking up the undisputed title yet again, wanting to strip Holyfield so that two Don King fighters, this time Tyson and Ruddock, could contest a vacant WBC belt.

Sulaiman campaigned for Holyfield to be stripped of the WBC belt – he even insisted Holyfield must split the purse 55-45 with Tyson, despite the WBC rules calling for 75-25 champion-to-challenger purses. If Holyfield were to refuse this he would strip him of the belt.

Immediately after Riddick Bowe’s win over Holyfield, the WBC demanded Rock Newman/Bowe go straight in with their top contender Lennox Lewis – who had beaten Don King’s Razor Ruddock and whom Don King was trying to get under his wing – even though Bowe was entitled under WBC rules a full year before he took on his mandatory. (Bowe reacted by binning the WBC belt and Lewis was awarded it, and had to defend it of course against Don King's Tony Tucker.)

Other WBC champs such as Wilfredo Gomez and Carlos Zarate were not subject to the same rules and went over a year without mandatory defences. Asked about this in BI in 1996, Sulaiman said “I am not sure because I don’t remember their cases right now”. Sulaiman justified the WBC’s actions by pointing to Bowe's mismatch with Michael Dokes – ignoring the WBC/Don King mismatches he had sanctioned recently, including Julian Jackson against clubfighter Israel Negron and Chavez versus Haugen, John DuPlessis, Kyung Duk Ahn etc etc. Sulaiman even sanctioned a defense by JC Chavez against Lonnie Smith, despite Smith being unranked by the WBC.

When WBC champ Julian Jackson expressed dissatisfaction with Don King over the blank contract he had signed, and began talking with Bob Arum, Sulaiman suddenly decided that Jackson’s retina problems were an issue and he should not be allowed to keep fighting. When Jackson backed down and returned to King, Sulaiman approved his next title defense without any requirement for another eye exam.

When Razor Ruddock didn’t pay his WBC sanctioning fee of $150K for his 10 round non-title fight with Greg Page, Sulaiman dropped him to number two. When Ruddock paid up, he was lifted back up to number one.

For the WBC Julio Cesar Chavez-Pelayito Hernandez fight in Mexico the ring size did not conform to the minimum size standards, a complaint that Chavez was using too much tape and gauze was ignored by the WBC, AND CHAVEZ FAILED TO TAKE THE POST-FIGHT URINE TEST. It was at least the second time complaints had been made about Chavez using too much tape and gauze.

Sulaiman apparently was heard instructing officials at Chavez/Whitaker that they “were not to reward movement, but aggressiveness”. In the wake of judge Mickey Vann voluntarily deducting a point from Whitaker without instruction from the referee, thus making his card a draw and saving Chavez the loss, Sulaiman awarded Vann the big Lewis/Bruno gig in Cardiff.

When Frankie Randall clearly beat Julio Cesar Chavez in 1994, despite two points deductions from Chavez and a knockdown scored by Randall, he still only won by a point in a split decision. Had he not knocked Chavez down in the 11th, the WBC judges would have scored the fight a draw and Chavez would have retained his title!

When Chavez was again losing the rematch, and turned his back in the eighth, saying twice he did not want to continue even though the ringside doctor Flip Homansky said he would have let him, Sulaiman, who personally collects the scorecards and knows who is ahead, decided the fight would not be an LTKO8 but instead go to the socrecards -- where Chavez miraculously won on points and regained his title! Ringside reporters had Randall well ahead.

In 1995, Mike Tyson became the number one WBC contender despite having not won a fight in four years. Oliver McCall was WBC champ, and Don King fighters Frans Botha and Peter McNeeley suddenly appeared in the top 10 despite never having beaten a ranked contender. Lennox Lewis fought and defeated Don King’s Lionel Butler in a WBC final eliminator, but Sulaiman still kept the inactive Tyson at number one. Bowe meanwhile was not even ranked by the WBC. The independent world rankings had Bowe at 1, Lewis at 3 and Tyson nowehere in the top 25, due to his complete inactivity.

Etc etc.

When you look at it that way, Sulaiman Jr doesn't seem so bad!

Ive never liked Suilaman and that reversal was a bit strange but truth be told I personally couldn't care less about due process if justice is done, Martinez fcvked up the silly pudendum, he was pulvarising Edwards and cost himself a world title, I don't know if Mauricio was trying to be the saving grace and the hero but people seriously cant believe Eddie organised this, if he did then surely he would have WBC rule it a DQ win for Edwards thus voiding the rematch, it feels like Suilaman made this decision off the cuff, not the correct decision but better than the one initially made so for that I'm happy enough with how it played out

Right decision but in the wrong timeframe. Due process needed and a panel to decide surely. Cannot just have one guy at ringside make shite up as he goes along.

But it does cut the cost, time and red tape as that would have had to be made a no contest if they went through the proper channels.

Besides that, Edwards was getting a right royal spanking and the end was either there and then anyway or coming very soon after.

Macklin's reaction cracked me up, immediately losing his sh1t, I said to the mate with me, "I have no idea who manages Edwards, but that reaction is making me think it has to be MTK".

Some good info there Overhand Right

bripez wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 05:30 Some good info there Overhand Right

Great post. That's one I wish I could pin so we could refer back to it.

Hang on a second. A Mexican WBC president ruled against Mexican and people are thinking its corrupt.

Eh, WBC has instant replay and it chose to use that right / power last night. This is a wake up call for BBBofC to get in instant replay for fights where possible.

forcefraser wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 03:55 Clearthat he hit him when he was on one knee. Should be a DQ if anything

100 %

tobyh5 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 05:27 Right decision but in the wrong timeframe. Due process needed and a panel to decide surely. Cannot just have one guy at ringside make shite up as he goes along.

But it does cut the cost, time and red tape as that would have had to be made a no contest if they went through the proper channels.

Besides that, Edwards was getting a right royal spanking and the end was either there and then anyway or coming very soon after.

Macklin's reaction cracked me up, immediately losing his sh1t, I said to the mate with me, "I have no idea who manages Edwards, but that reaction is making me think it has to be MTK".

A quick glance at his shorts may have helped

Cartoonish levels of corruption there. Fcking hell

You're all mad. It was the most blatant late punch I've ever seen. Martinez should have lost by DQ, a NC is very lenient.

Take off your tinfoil hats, you numpties.

Why are the BBBoC allowing this? They just got made to look like absolute fools. They sanctioned and officiated this fight, and lodged the official outcome. What kind of mickey mouse outfit do they look now that the president of one of the alphabets just rips up the result the BBBoC give?

Gnome wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 06:00 You're all mad. It was the most blatant late punch I've ever seen. Martinez should have lost by DQ, a NC is very lenient.

Take off your tinfoil hats, you numpties.

Edwards was finished, out his depth and took a fvcking dive.

That's like saying Khan should've won by DQ when he tried getting out the Crawford fight.

The shit was late though, in these situations the ref should explain to the fighter he's 1. Still scoring the knockdown, 2. Iffering 5 mins recovery time and 3. Its a tko if you can't continue after 5 minutes.

samwbr wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 05:56

tobyh5 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2019, 05:27 Right decision but in the wrong timeframe. Due process needed and a panel to decide surely. Cannot just have one guy at ringside make shite up as he goes along.

But it does cut the cost, time and red tape as that would have had to be made a no contest if they went through the proper channels.

Besides that, Edwards was getting a right royal spanking and the end was either there and then anyway or coming very soon after.

Macklin's reaction cracked me up, immediately losing his sh1t, I said to the mate with me, "I have no idea who manages Edwards, but that reaction is making me think it has to be MTK".

A quick glance at his shorts may have helped

Sh1t really? I was chatting to mates during the fight so only half watching but if its on his shorts, damn thats embarrassing from me but, you get the point about Macklin immediately kicking off. Hardly unbiased.

The whole episode stinks. I've seen worse shots or fouls than that. Herbie Hide was a disgrace and there ain't any DQ's on his record.

The ref called it a win for Martinez and he should be going home the champ.

If the referee had DQ'd him there and then, ok. Even though, I'd still insist Edwards pulled a fast one.

I don't care about the precedents in the past..rules are rules...no contest is the right decision..