BoxRec

Posted: **01 Nov 2019, 18:27**

“[Canelo] has fought with big names when they are at the end of their career. Shane Mosley was at the end of his career, Miguel Cotto was at the end of his career, Kovalev is at the end of his career... with [ Gennadiy] Golovkin, he is already [far along in years] and [Canelo] has been waiting for him to deteriorate. This is something that people see," Morales told ESPN Deportes.

“People are always waiting for something from him and it seems that Canelo's fights, throughout his career, are not taken into account at 100 percent. People and I had hoped that the fight against GGG would have taken place and instead they choose a opponent who for many is already old, he is already old and won't present real competition. Yes [Kovalev] is bigger, yes he is stronger and the people of Mexico don't know Kovalev. I can say that he is bigger, stronger and that he is world champion and has attributes. But Kovalev is already very damaged."

“I fought with the 1 or 2 in the world and I also understand that this is a business. Now it is administration that make a career and if that was the case for me then it would have made my career different. At the end of your career you have to ask yourself, how do you want to be remembered? And the questions and criticisms of Canelo have been constant and it is because of the types of opponents he chooses. With myself and some others we chose the best, I chose the best of each division," Morales said.

Posted: **01 Nov 2019, 18:27**

Jealousy? Or just the truth?

Posted: **01 Nov 2019, 18:41**

Should Canelo have faced riskier opponents for smaller paydays?

If we’re going by that rule, can we apply it consistently to other fighters that made similar choices to Canelo?

For me, it’s all about timing. The promoters and the networks want to make the biggest fights financially.

Fight fans may become tearful or angry about this claim, but does anyone really feel that this is untrue?

Posted: **02 Nov 2019, 02:53**

And loses to them, btw. He was outclassed by Mayweather. He lost twice to Golovkin. He'll lose to Kovalev too. He won't KO Kovalev. In the best case for Canelo it will go the distance and then the judges will help him yet again.

Posted: **02 Nov 2019, 09:40**

Canelo is going to have detractors. Hes damn good but hes been calculating with his opponent selection and had a lot of dubious scorecards. Plus hes a ped cheat (like morales) so its definitely deserved

Posted: **04 Nov 2019, 20:52**

It’s true that he’s fought some aging foes. But he also had to move up in weight to fight a few of them. If Canelo had opted never to face Golovkin he would have been called a coward. But since he DID face him then now he’s a cherry picker of aging fighters. When you’re at the top there’s no winning in that scenario. Floyd dealt with the same shit for years...

Posted: **04 Nov 2019, 20:58**

Say what you want, but Canelo is a damn good fighter.

Posted: **04 Nov 2019, 21:21**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑01 Nov 2019, 18:27 Jealousy? Or just the truth?

Both

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 04:46**

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 20:58 Say what you want, but Canelo is a damn good fighter.

I’m really starting to admire him.

Putting scorecard controversy and ped use speculations aside.

He’s without question a extremely hard worker and dedicated to boxing. Ped use just doesn’t guarantee you results, you need to work for them.

He’s got the best hooks in the game imo and potentially the best chin. His ring generalship is also top notch - watch him move Kovalev to the ropes and keep him off balance. I’m also impressed by his defence.

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 07:47**

Érik Morales was a fantastic fighter that achieved a hell of a lot in our beloved sport, but his comments about Canelo are a bit harsh, even though admittedly there’s an element of truth to some of the opinions he’s conveyed.

From a business and economic point-of-view, the opponents’ Canelo faced had to be sanctioned by the networks he’s affiliated with, such Showtime, HBO and more recently DAZN. The Mexican wouldn’t have been allowed to face anyone he damn well wanted!

For instance: Artur Beterbiev would not have been deemed as a suitable opponent by DAZN had Canelo wanted to face the Russian immediately after he fought Kalajdzic. It simply wouldn’t have happened.

The networks will always force Canelo to face established stars that attract decent viewing figures, rather than anonymous high-risk low-reward opposition.

Also, let’s not forget that eighteen of Canelo’s opponents were former, current or future world champions.

He faced his first world champion opponent at the tender age of fifteen. And before reaching his 26th birthday, eleven of his fights were against world champion calibre opposition, with at least three of them being dead-cert first-ballot Hall-of-Famers.

Does Canelo not deserve any credit whatsoever for engaging in so many marquee bouts at such a tender age - before he'd even reached his physical prime?

Was it Canelo’s fault that so many of the biggest names competing in the sport of boxing were so much older than himself?

Anyway, let’s address some of Érik Morales’ points:

• Canelo had only just turned 23 years old when he faced the all-time great and pound-for-pound number one, Floyd Mayweather Jr. The Mexican lost that fight. And Money May continued his career for another four more years (unbeaten) until he eventually retired.

• Canelo faced Shane Mosley when he was 21 years of age, with the American having faced Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao in two of his previous three bouts.

• Sergey Kovalev was rated second at light heavyweight by ESPN & The RING at the time he faced Canelo, with many from this forum considering the bout as being a 50-50 fight (according to the thread polls).

• Miguel Cotto was The RING and the WBC champion when he faced a 25-year-old Canelo. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the Puerto Rican Hall-of-Famer had also re-entered The RING’s top-ten pound-for-pound ratings after his victories over Sergio Martinez and Daniel Geale. Cotto captured the WBO 154lbs world title immediately after his defeat to Canelo.

• GBP offered GGG the Canelo bout several years prior to them eventually meeting, but the Kazakh wouldn’t consider facing the Mexican at a lower weight class, despite Team Golovkin’s persistent and long-term boasts of being capable of beating any fighter in their 154lbs natural habitat.

• Gennadiy Golovkin reclaimed his IBF world title (after being defeated by Canelo), during his most recent outing, by beating Sergiy Derevyanchenko.

• Erislandy Lara captured the WBA’s super-welterweight title immediately after his defeat to Canelo more than five years ago. And he still currently holds that belt.

Finally, some of Érik Morales’ criticisms are equally applicable to other fighters, such as Lennox Lewis, who through no fault of his own, achieved some of his biggest victories against big-name fighters that were either past-their-prime or were nowhere near their primes.

Timing is key, I guess.

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 08:49**

Morales has a point.

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 14:56**

lazboy wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 04:46
oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 20:58 Say what you want, but Canelo is a damn good fighter.
I’m really starting to admire him.

Putting scorecard controversy and ped use speculations aside.

He’s without question a extremely hard worker and dedicated to boxing. Ped use just doesn’t guarantee you results, you need to work for them.

He’s got the best hooks in the game imo and potentially the best chin. His ring generalship is also top notch - watch him move Kovalev to the ropes and keep him off balance. I’m also impressed by his defence.

Agreed, including that he is starting to win me over.

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 17:38**

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑04 Nov 2019, 21:21
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑01 Nov 2019, 18:27 Jealousy? Or just the truth?
Both

x2....

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 20:58**

Kind of hard to meet great fighters with both at peak.

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 21:09**

tiny_acres wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 20:58 Kind of hard to meet great fighters with both at peak.

It was very easy for Canelo to fight GGG at his peak, but his body "wasn't ready for 160".

Posted: **05 Nov 2019, 22:30**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 07:47 Érik Morales was a fantastic fighter that achieved a hell of a lot in our beloved sport, but his comments about Canelo are a bit harsh, even though admittedly there’s an element of truth to some of the opinions he’s conveyed.

From a business and economic point-of-view, the opponents’ Canelo faced had to be sanctioned by the networks he’s affiliated with, such Showtime, HBO and more recently DAZN. The Mexican wouldn’t have been allowed to face anyone he damn well wanted!

For instance: Artur Beterbiev would not have been deemed as a suitable opponent by DAZN had Canelo wanted to face the Russian immediately after he fought Kalajdzic. It simply wouldn’t have happened.

The networks will always force Canelo to face established stars that attract decent viewing figures, rather than anonymous high-risk low-reward opposition.

Also, let’s not forget that eighteen of Canelo’s opponents were former, current or future world champions.

He faced his first world champion opponent at the tender age of fifteen. And before reaching his 26th birthday, eleven of his fights were against world champion calibre opposition, with at least three of them being dead-cert first-ballot Hall-of-Famers.

Does Canelo not deserve any credit whatsoever for engaging in so many marquee bouts at such a tender age - before he'd even reached his physical prime?

Was it Canelo’s fault that so many of the biggest names competing in the sport of boxing were so much older than himself?

Anyway, let’s address some of Érik Morales’ points:

• Canelo had only just turned 23 years old when he faced the all-time great and pound-for-pound number one, Floyd Mayweather Jr. The Mexican lost that fight. And Money May continued his career for another four more years (unbeaten) until he eventually retired.

• Canelo faced Shane Mosley when he was 21 years of age, with the American having faced Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao in two of his previous three bouts.

• Sergey Kovalev was rated second at light heavyweight by ESPN & The RING at the time he faced Canelo, with many from this forum considering the bout as being a 50-50 fight (according to the thread polls).

• Miguel Cotto was The RING and the WBC champion when he faced a 25-year-old Canelo. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the Puerto Rican Hall-of-Famer had also re-entered The RING’s top-ten pound-for-pound ratings after his victories over Sergio Martinez and Daniel Geale. Cotto captured the WBO 154lbs world title immediately after his defeat to Canelo.

• GBP offered GGG the Canelo bout several years prior to them eventually meeting, but the Kazakh wouldn’t consider facing the Mexican at a lower weight class, despite Team Golovkin’s persistent and long-term boasts of being capable of beating any fighter in their 154lbs natural habitat.

• Gennadiy Golovkin reclaimed his IBF world title (after being defeated by Canelo), during his most recent outing, by beating Sergiy Derevyanchenko.

• Erislandy Lara captured the WBA’s super-welterweight title immediately after his defeat to Canelo more than five years ago. And he still currently holds that belt.

Finally, some of Érik Morales’ criticisms are equally applicable to other fighters, such as Lennox Lewis, who through no fault of his own, achieved some of his biggest victories against big-name fighters that were either past-their-prime or were nowhere near their primes.

Timing is key, I guess.

That’s all well and good but Canelo’s two best victories (one was highly debatable) are against fighters past their prime. That is a fact.

I give Canelo credit for moving to LHW and beating Kovalev but I won’t forgive him for his PED use.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 05:06**

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 21:09
tiny_acres wrote: ↑05 Nov 2019, 20:58 Kind of hard to meet great fighters with both at peak.
It was very easy for Canelo to fight GGG at his peak, but his body "wasn't ready for 160".

And then 2 years later, he’s 15 pounds heavier..

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 05:13**

Man. The haters on boxrec really can't help themselves but to hate.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 07:29**

I think both. Morales is probably still upset that Canelo only got a 6 month ban when Morales got a 2 year ban for exactly the same thing - Clenbuterol in "tainted meat".

He is right about the age thing though. Mosley was about 40, Cotto 35 or 36, Floyd 36, Kovalev 36, GGG 36 or 37.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 17:35**

And Morales is going easy on him, I am sure he has many more thoughts on Canelo...

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 18:54**

Bandog wrote: ↑06 Nov 2019, 07:29 I think both. Morales is probably still upset that Canelo only got a 6 month ban when Morales got a 2 year ban for exactly the same thing - Clenbuterol in "tainted meat".

He is right about the age thing though. Mosley was about 40, Cotto 35 or 36, Floyd 36, Kovalev 36, GGG 36 or 37.

Are the ages relevant though? How were these guys perceived at the time they faced Canelo?

I’ve already performed the research for you, so please check my post.

The problem I have is that the BoxRec forum considered the Canelo-Kovalev bout as being a 50-50 for fight beforehand, but now we know the outcome of that fight, people are using hindsight to criticise the Mexican.

Opinions of Kovalev clearly flip-flopped. And the same rule probably applies to the other guys Canelo faced. They’re good until they lose.

Similarly, fight fans considered Andy Ruiz Jr. as being garbage until he beat AJ. And now they think he’s a decent fighter.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 19:05**

Doesn’t really matter, to beat who he has regardless of their ages you have to be a damn good fighter , which he is, his fundamentals and ring IQ have developed into something pretty special and is a joy to watch.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 19:24**

littlepug wrote: ↑06 Nov 2019, 19:05 Doesn’t really matter, to beat who he has regardless of their ages you have to be a damn good fighter , which he is, his fundamentals and ring IQ have developed into something pretty special and is a joy to watch.

Eleider Alvarez stopped Kovalev and Yarde almost did and they are not damn good fighters. Mundine stopped Mosley a year after Canelo. Does it make him a damn good fighter?

Provodnikov stoped Castillo who clearly defeated Mayweather, so Provodnikov must be the best ever.

Morales is absolutely right even though some jealousy may be involved.

Posted: **06 Nov 2019, 21:45**

I think it's a fair point to make from Morales. Considering Morales fought fighters like Pacquiao, Barrera, Jesus Chavez and others when they were either in the ascendancy or in their respective primes and even when he was in his late 30s he was taking fights against dangerous names like Maidana and Danny Garcia.

Canelo is a difficult one, similar to Mayweather, he has fought fighters with huge reputations and most of whom current/former champions or highly-rated contenders but there is a feeling amongst some fans that they accepted those fights only if the conditions contractually supported them. Mayweather draining Canelo to 152 with a half dead Canelo hitting the scales, then Canelo draining Chavez Jr. to 164 when the fat bugger could barely make 168 being a great example of what I'm talking about.

I have to give credit to Canelo for moving up to 175 to fight a dangerous guy like Kovalev and the KO was disgusting, the combination he landed was perfect. My issue is with the cards that were later revealed, I can't see how anyone was scoring that fight for Canelo just for controlling the pace, his punch output was so damn low I just can't see it. Kovalev was popping out the weakest jab and mostly landing on gloves (except when he doubled and tripled up on the jab then you'd see a couple sneak through) but in amateur scoring terms he was landing the more "points" per round and winning the majority of the exchanges.

Eventually Canelo will always get the benefit of the doubt similar to the way AJ does in UK (e.g. shit ref Vs. Parker, poor stoppages vs. Takam and Klitschko). I guess it's the way the industry's going but it just hurts when we could've seen Mayweather fight Pacquiao 3 or 4 times, Cotto Vs Canelo 2 or 3 times but never did because people were protecting their records. Look at fighters back in the day like Willie Pep who fought Saddler 4 times in 2 years for the Featherweight title or Charley Burley fighting Holman Williams 4 times in one year ('42). I'd rather someone have Shawn Porter's 30-3-1 when his losses are all vs. Prime Brook, Thurman & Spence Jr, rather than seeing him waiting to fight the former 2 now where he'd obviously dominate both. Then again if he was the A-Side maybe he would've done exactly that.

When fighters face-off in their respective primes it stops the question marks, people discuss whether FMJ is TBE, people discuss whether Lewis would beat Tyson, people rarely try and question Ali's record, Joe Louis' record or even Marciano's. They fought the best available and often several times.

Posted: **07 Nov 2019, 08:39**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑06 Nov 2019, 18:54
Bandog wrote: ↑06 Nov 2019, 07:29 I think both. Morales is probably still upset that Canelo only got a 6 month ban when Morales got a 2 year ban for exactly the same thing - Clenbuterol in "tainted meat".

He is right about the age thing though. Mosley was about 40, Cotto 35 or 36, Floyd 36, Kovalev 36, GGG 36 or 37.
Are the ages relevant though? How were these guys perceived at the time they faced Canelo?

I’ve already performed the research for you, so please check my post.

The problem I have is that the BoxRec forum considered the Canelo-Kovalev bout as being a 50-50 for fight beforehand, but now we know the outcome of that fight, people are using hindsight to criticise the Mexican.

Opinions of Kovalev clearly flip-flopped. And the same rule probably applies to the other guys Canelo faced. They’re good until they lose.

Similarly, fight fans considered Andy Ruiz Jr. as being garbage until he beat AJ. And now they think he’s a decent fighter.

They were all clearly past their primes, their best, so yes age has something to do with it, and how they were perceived.

Cotto was 3-2 on his fights previous to fighting Canelo, 35 yrs old, and had only 2 fights after, one of which he lost.

Mosely was clearly shot at 41 yrs old, 2-2-1 in his 5 bouts previously, and only had 5 fights after where he went 3-2 vs tomato can opposition.

Canelo clearly ducked and dropped his belt to avoid GGG, and it was not until GGG looked vulnerable vs Jacobs when he finally was confident enough to fight him. GGG is good, but not in his prime.

Floyd was 36 and anyone that knows at least a little about boxing knows he was not in his prime at 36 years of age. Him shutting out Canelo just shows what a master boxer/technician he was.

Kovalev had been KO'd twice, and clearly showed stamina issues, along with a known weakness to a body attack. And yes, again the age, wear and tear had something to do with it. Beating Kovalev pre-Ward and without weight stipulations would have been a great accomplishment. Kovalev was 4-3 in his last 7 bouts, and got stopped twice already.

I find it funny that your research didn't point to any of the facts I stated above. I didn't have to write a book about it either.

BoxRec

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Erik Morales: Canelo Fights Big Names When They Are at The End!

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