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Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 07:30
by RonnyJ
the heavyweight division is very stong right now, but there are only 2 reasons why, those new heavyweight are very tall 6'6+ and very strong. they have size and punchiner power advantage.as far as boxing skills go they weak and that is the main reason why i have a hard time puting any hw into a p4p top 10.
joshua, who is the best in my eyes, throws the most vicious combos, punches hard, solid skills, but it lacks technique. wilder has no technique, but he is arguably the hardest punch ever, that obviously wins you a lot of fights. fury is just ackward. slow in every way, he is haltingly. everything he does is non fluid, totaly unathletic, just size, reach and chin. ajagba, makhmodov or flipriv are just limited. slow, weak defence or no defence, open. but they just much taller, much stronger, so they dont get countered and the poor defence doesnt get exploited.
a p4p boxer is the total package. no matter if its skills, footwork, power or speed, they can do it all. inoue, lomachenko, crawford, usyk, these are the kind of guys who can do it all. than you got spence, canelo, bertebiev, GGG, pacquiao. it's just not possible to put these fat unathletic limited heavyweights in the top 10.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 08:47
by Finkel
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 09:01
by RonnyJ
Forbes is hilarious
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 10:46
by Duran1970
RonnyJ wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 07:30
the heavyweight division is very stong right now, but there are only 2 reasons why, those new heavyweight are very tall 6'6+ and very strong. they have size and punchiner power advantage.as far as boxing skills go they weak and that is the main reason why i have a hard time puting any hw into a p4p top 10.
joshua, who is the best in my eyes, throws the most vicious combos, punches hard, solid skills, but it lacks technique. wilder has no technique, but he is arguably the hardest punch ever, that obviously wins you a lot of fights. fury is just ackward. slow in every way, he is haltingly. everything he does is non fluid, totaly unathletic, just size, reach and chin. ajagba, makhmodov or flipriv are just limited. slow, weak defence or no defence, open. but they just much taller, much stronger, so they dont get countered and the poor defence doesnt get exploited.
a p4p boxer is the total package. no matter if its skills, footwork, power or speed, they can do it all. inoue, lomachenko, crawford, usyk, these are the kind of guys who can do it all. than you got spence, canelo, bertebiev, GGG, pacquiao. it's just not possible to put these fat unathletic limited heavyweights in the top 10.
Fury has a chin?
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 10:49
by Jeff_lacy_ko
Usyk
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 11:05
by RonnyJ
Duran1970 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 10:46
RonnyJ wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 07:30
the heavyweight division is very stong right now, but there are only 2 reasons why, those new heavyweight are very tall 6'6+ and very strong. they have size and punchiner power advantage.as far as boxing skills go they weak and that is the main reason why i have a hard time puting any hw into a p4p top 10.
joshua, who is the best in my eyes, throws the most vicious combos, punches hard, solid skills, but it lacks technique. wilder has no technique, but he is arguably the hardest punch ever, that obviously wins you a lot of fights. fury is just ackward. slow in every way, he is haltingly. everything he does is non fluid, totaly unathletic, just size, reach and chin. ajagba, makhmodov or flipriv are just limited. slow, weak defence or no defence, open. but they just much taller, much stronger, so they dont get countered and the poor defence doesnt get exploited.
a p4p boxer is the total package. no matter if its skills, footwork, power or speed, they can do it all. inoue, lomachenko, crawford, usyk, these are the kind of guys who can do it all. than you got spence, canelo, bertebiev, GGG, pacquiao. it's just not possible to put these fat unathletic limited heavyweights in the top 10.
Fury has a chin?
He got clinked by arguably the strongest puncher on the chin, was knocked down and many wouldve stayed on the canvas, he got up.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 11:06
by RonnyJ
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 12:03
by margaret thatcher
Wilder is knocking out guys always heavier than himself, though much of that weight is from fat
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 12:21
by Duran1970
RonnyJ wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 11:05
Duran1970 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 10:46
Fury has a chin?
He got clinked by arguably the strongest puncher on the chin, was knocked down and many wouldve stayed on the canvas, he got up.
He also got clinked by cruiserweights and put on his ass
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:07
by squiggy
I doubt he'll even be given the chance, but personally I would love to see Usyk absolutely run the table at heavyweight.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:14
by margaret thatcher
Thing with the HWs too, because of their size it's tougher to look as sharp or quick as lighter guys, and also since they can't move up they don't get to have '__ division champ' credentials unless they came from lower divisions already
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:16
by gilgamesh
Usyk...he'll solidify this for sure if he's able to get some noteworthy wins as a Heavyweight.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:17
by Onetimeonly
No Heavyweight since Lewis has been a reasonable p4p entrant. I thought Josh was getting close before the guy with the massive jugs slumped him. Usyk has the opportunity, I mean we all had him there before he moved up. I'd still call him top 10, so, lol, yes. Usyk
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:42
by Stuarty
Agree with the folk above who say Usyk. He surely must be on most peoples top p4p lists. Outside him? Nah. Maybe the winner out of Fury/Wilder could slip in at number 10..
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:54
by littlepug
I almost see Heavyweight boxing as a separate sport away from the other divisions, they’re so big that many of them can’t display classic boxing skill, also the fact they don’t have to make weight plays a role as well, a few over the years have manage to be in the p4p conversation but not many, if one of the current lot cleans up then maybe.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 13:58
by RonnyJ
Duran1970 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 12:21
RonnyJ wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 11:05
He got clinked by arguably the strongest puncher on the chin, was knocked down and many wouldve stayed on the canvas, he got up.
He also got clinked by cruiserweights and put on his ass
a strong cw, who came in as a hw
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 14:15
by RonnyJ
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 13:54
I almost see Heavyweight boxing as a separate sport away from the other divisions, they’re so big that many of them can’t display classic boxing skill, also the fact they don’t have to make weight plays a role as well, a few over the years have manage to be in the p4p conversation but not many, if one of the current lot cleans up then maybe.
weight is an excuse, so they dont have to train hard. remember a late 80's Tyson or early 90's Holyfied. ripped, trained hard. the footwork was on point, the speed, the power, they had technique, everything. classic p4p boxer. so at the end, to be a top p4p boxer it is talent, training and dedication, regardless of divisions.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 18:01
by littlepug
RonnyJ wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 14:15
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 13:54
I almost see Heavyweight boxing as a separate sport away from the other divisions, they’re so big that many of them can’t display classic boxing skill, also the fact they don’t have to make weight plays a role as well, a few over the years have manage to be in the p4p conversation but not many, if one of the current lot cleans up then maybe.
weight is an excuse, so they dont have to train hard. remember a late 80's Tyson or early 90's Holyfied. ripped, trained hard. the footwork was on point, the speed, the power, they had technique, everything. classic p4p boxer. so at the end, to be a top p4p boxer it is talent, training and dedication, regardless of divisions.
Agree, Wilder is lean as fcuk can you imagine if he had proper fundamentals? But you’re right about Tyson and Holy and even Lewis for a big man was always in shape and could box and move like a middle
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 18:10
by Impractical Poster
I have no issue with Wilder being on the top 10 list.
41-0 with 40 KOs and 10 title defenses would put just about any other fighter on the list. Why not an undersized heavyweight?
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 19:06
by margaret thatcher
Impractical Poster wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 18:10
I have no issue with Wilder being on the top 10 list.
41-0 with 40 KOs and 10 title defenses would put just about any other fighter on the list. Why not an undersized heavyweight?
What do yo uthink about the quality of opposition, detractos will say he has a lot of wins but not very good opponents he's beaten
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 04 Dec 2019, 23:18
by sturm vogel
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 05 Dec 2019, 00:02
by Onetimeonly
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 19:06
Impractical Poster wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 18:10
I have no issue with Wilder being on the top 10 list.
41-0 with 40 KOs and 10 title defenses would put just about any other fighter on the list. Why not an undersized heavyweight?
What do yo uthink about the quality of opposition, detractos will say he has a lot of wins but not very good opponents he's beaten
They're likely Klitschko fans that adored wlad despite getting smashed by regulars and vitali who never beat anyone.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 00:47
by Impractical Poster
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 19:06
Impractical Poster wrote: ↑04 Dec 2019, 18:10
I have no issue with Wilder being on the top 10 list.
41-0 with 40 KOs and 10 title defenses would put just about any other fighter on the list. Why not an undersized heavyweight?
What do yo uthink about the quality of opposition, detractos will say he has a lot of wins but not very good opponents he's beaten
People always gripe about competition. He hasn't faced everyone. But he has faced top solid heavyweights who had not been down before and stopped all but one. I think he deserves a top 10 spot.
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 00:55
by margaret thatcher
Competition is relevant tbf, I rate the Ortiz wins and he obviously has one of the best HW resumes, but guys like Stiverne and Breazeale are pretty weak as your next best wins for a p4p level, if we are talking what he's done. That may mean a lot at HW, but how do you honestly think that compares to the best of what has been accomplished in other divisions?.
He is showing some special abilities and generally beating heavier guys though, he could make the top 10 when you consider that. He's not much bigger than Usyk and lots rate Uzzy. But I can't honestly say having 10 title defenses or whatever itself means a lot. Volume--that stuff like Wilder's 42 wins and knockouts, wlad's 15 title defenses, Vitali's KO rate, etc is overrated, quality means a lot more.
In fact, most of the time people mention volume first because the quality ain't there to talk about
Re: Is there any HW on a p4p 10 level?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 01:17
by margaret thatcher
I will tell you though, Wilder woulda decapitated Wlad and beat Vitali by gorey cuts tko, imagine the reaction of the Klitorus crew to those
