BoxRec

Posted: **09 Jan 2020, 22:03**

Thoughts on any current fighter who you thought was utter trash but come around to admit that he's good fighter.

I'll start and say Tevin Farmer thought he wasn't worth mentioning to fight some of the bigger names at 130 but he skill and durability is much better than I thought even though his resume is still kinda trash but is quality fighter.

Posted: **09 Jan 2020, 22:35**

Dillian Whyte. I wouldn’t say I thought he was trash although I didn’t think he was very good. I’ve been surprised by how well he has performed lately. I’d put him at 5 in the world.

Posted: **09 Jan 2020, 22:47**

Tyson Fury.

Didn't think he was complete trash. But never thought he'd ever be in the position he's in now.

Posted: **09 Jan 2020, 23:21**

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 22:47 Tyson Fury.

Didn't think he was complete trash. But never thought he'd ever be in the position he's in now.

Was about to say Fury too. Seen him lose to McDermott, punch himself in the face and get flattened by Cunningham. I still don't really rate him the way some do, but he's better than i thought he'd be.

Posted: **10 Jan 2020, 05:09**

Anthony Crolla. And years and years ago, when I was just a little kid, Johnny Nelson.

Posted: **10 Jan 2020, 10:23**

BJS. I thought he was European level at best, but he's clearly more than that. His career has been disappointing, especially after his positive test leading up to the Andrade fight, but he's still proven he's a top player at what ever weight he fights, now he just needs a decent challenge.

Posted: **10 Jan 2020, 10:32**

lazboy wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 22:35 Dillian Whyte. I wouldn’t say I thought he was trash although I didn’t think he was very good. I’ve been surprised by how well he has performed lately. I’d put him at 5 in the world.

Same here. Actually, he wasn't too special indeed, just big, strong guy, but he has learnt to box well recently, what had been proved in his bouts vs Parker, Chisora #2, Rivas. A bit bad, that he lost his shape after time-off.

And similar stuff I can say about Joshua. I've always been saying, that AJ was given too much dividends in advance, he wasn't suberb even while being the champ. But he finally came out in his best shape in Ruiz bout #2 and boxed great, like he had never been able to do before.

Posted: **10 Jan 2020, 11:34**

Badou Jack. I never thought he'd separate from the TMT pack he was in as much as he did.

Posted: **10 Jan 2020, 19:13**

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 22:47 Tyson Fury.

Didn't think he was complete trash. But never thought he'd ever be in the position he's in now.

Same here

Admittedly I thought he wasn’t talented enough to get anywhere but he then made progress consistently from fight to fight.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 10:44**

Badou jack inproved tremendously from his time as a prospect. I thought he was j leon love mold

Fres oquendo. I thought he was done when he was knocked out by john ruiz, but here we are 15 years later and hes still a highly ranked hw contender by the reputable WBA

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 16:12**

Jorge Linares.
Always thought he was a solid B level guy, who lost to the champs.
Then he had that solid 6 fight run, only to be ended with a cracker against Loma. His away fights (which is every fight) in the UK were amazing, cleaning out what was a very good bunch of guys.
Father time has him now, but as for Cinderella career twilights, it's pretty impressive.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 16:19**

Deontay Wilder.

And I really did think he was shoite.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 16:52**

skanksta wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:19 Deontay Wilder.

And I really did think he was shoite.

What has he done to prove he isn't a one trick pony?
He hasn't out boxed anyone since Stiverne 1.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 16:53**

KiwiRider wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:52
skanksta wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:19 Deontay Wilder.

And I really did think he was shoite.
What has he done to prove he isn't a one trick pony?
He hasn't out boxed anyone since Stiverne 1.

Nothing - he still IS a one-trick-pony.
It's a great trick tho'

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 17:03**

skanksta wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:53
KiwiRider wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:52

What has he done to prove he isn't a one trick pony?
He hasn't out boxed anyone since Stiverne 1.
Nothing - he still IS a one-trick-pony.
It's a great trick tho'

Thats the thing his one trick has got to the top of division. I was highly critical of his resume but now understand he has stand the test of time and the power is out of this world and he has to respected as true champ.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 17:21**

Ricky wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 23:21
Impractical Poster wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 22:47 Tyson Fury.

Didn't think he was complete trash. But never thought he'd ever be in the position he's in now.
Was about to say Fury too. Seen him lose to McDermott, punch himself in the face and get flattened by Cunningham. I still don't really rate him the way some do, but he's better than i thought he'd be.

Exactly my thoughts on him... Add Pajkic too for the KDs... McDermott... Yep... He really gained confidence and defined himself in the Wlad fight

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 20:03**

world ranked wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 17:03
skanksta wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 16:53

Nothing - he still IS a one-trick-pony.
It's a great trick tho'
Thats the thing his one trick has got to the top of division. I was highly critical of his resume but now understand he has stand the test of time and the power is out of this world and he has to respected as true champ.

Wilder to me too. I thought he had a bad chin, but it appears to be decent. That "one trick" he has is effective enough to make him a top HW. I have no doubts he would stop Joshua, and I think he will stop Fury this time.

Posted: **11 Jan 2020, 23:50**

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 20:03
world ranked wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020, 17:03

Thats the thing his one trick has got to the top of division. I was highly critical of his resume but now understand he has stand the test of time and the power is out of this world and he has to respected as true champ.
Wilder to me too. I thought he had a bad chin, but it appears to be decent. That "one trick" he has is effective enough to make him a top HW. I have no doubts he would stop Joshua, and I think he will stop Fury this time.

Personally not on the band wagon just yet. He is certainly exciting to watch, as his one trick carries through to the final round. So it's always edge of your seat stuff.

Because of that, his profile really should be much bigger than what it is. But his consistent choice of lackluster opponents and venues is part of the reason he isn't making Joshua money. Fortune favours the bold

So it's difficult to consider him a "true champ" beyond the shores of America as he still hasn't fought a "true mandatory"
And recently beating up on a highly ranked octogenarian (twice) doesn't make up for that, unfortunately.

As such his championship run though long is still currently one of hypotheticals.
If/When he beats Fury this year I think he will then get real recognition, and deservedly so.

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 00:08**

So he beats Ortiz twice and still no cred?

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 00:14**

I was convinced he had a glass chin, he was ktfo as an amateur and then dropped hard early in his career, and the terrible run of opponents for a good few years looked like blatant protection. But he's turned out to be pretty solid, certainly enough to take good shots and still be there to land his bomb

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 07:18**

Paci wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 00:08 So he beats Ortiz twice and still no cred?

I suspect I might get a fair bit of push back on this, but:

It really depends on how highly you rate beating an Ortiz in the twilight years of a career in which he has achieved and proved nothing of note.

Granted he is a cultured Cuban heavyweight and seen a tricky southpaw counter punch, BUT

1. Not many people really believe Ortiz's official age. So lets be generous and say He was close to 40 when he fought Wilder.

2. Ortiz's best win was against Bryant Jennings (who was coming off his first loss) back in 2015.
BTW Bryant Jennings has never actually beaten anyone inside the top 20. He is almost the perfect top 20 gate keeper. So off that back of that you could probably put Ortiz somewhere in the top 15.
Actually Ortiz's best win was probably against Christian Hammer last year, and he didn't look so hot in that fight.

So you can make an argument Ortiz is around the standard of Chisora, but Ortiz has never proven himself to be elite level, and he certainly isn't going to be reaching his peak at close to 40.

In summary Ortiz really needs/needed to fight one of his peers in the top 10. If he beats/had beaten one of them, then yeah, credit to Wilder.

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 07:44**

Finkel wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 07:18
Paci wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 00:08 So he beats Ortiz twice and still no cred?
I suspect I might get a fair bit of push back on this, but:

It really depends on how highly you rate beating an Ortiz in the twilight years of a career in which he has achieved and proved nothing of note.

Granted he is a cultured Cuban heavyweight and seen a tricky southpaw counter punch, BUT

1. Not many people really believe Ortiz's official age. So lets be generous and say He was close to 40 when he fought Wilder.

2. Ortiz's best win was against Bryant Jennings (who was coming off his first loss) back in 2015.
BTW Bryant Jennings has never actually beaten anyone inside the top 20. He is almost the perfect top 20 gate keeper. So off that back of that you could probably put Ortiz somewhere in the top 15.
Actually Ortiz's best win was probably against Christian Hammer last year, and he didn't look so hot in that fight.

So you can make an argument Ortiz is around the standard of Chisora, but Ortiz has never proven himself to be elite level, and he certainly isn't going to be reaching his peak at close to 40.

In summary Ortiz really needs/needed to fight one of his peers in the top 10. If he beats/had beaten one of them, then yeah, credit to Wilder.

If Ortiz now beats someone like let’s say, Whyte, Povetkin, Rivas or anyone let’s say in the Top 10-15, you’d give Wilder more credit.

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 07:57**

Ive underestimated Danny Garcia years ago. Expected more from Chudinov brothers and olympians Egor Mekhontsev and Felix Verdejo. Ive had Bryant Jennings and Seth Mitchell as US heavyweight hopes instead of Wilder. Ive wrote off Lemieux after Rubio loss but he won solid fights since then. Tony Bellew wins since Stevenson loss was unexpected for me too.

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 07:59**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 07:44
Finkel wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 07:18 ....

In summary Ortiz really needs/needed to fight one of his peers in the top 10. If he beats/had beaten one of them, then yeah, credit to Wilder.
If Ortiz now beats someone like let’s say, Whyte, Povetkin, Rivas or anyone let’s say in the Top 10-15, you’d give Wilder more credit.

Yeah I would have to.

Heck a hard fought competitive loss to Joshua would have at least been something to compare against.

Posted: **12 Jan 2020, 08:01**

Finkel wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 07:59
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 Jan 2020, 07:44

If Ortiz now beats someone like let’s say, Whyte, Povetkin, Rivas or anyone let’s say in the Top 10-15, you’d give Wilder more credit.
Yeah I would have to.

Heck a hard fought competitive loss to Joshua would have at least been something to compare against.

The thing is, both Wilder fights, Ortiz outboxed Wilder. Wilder is not a technical boxer, but you can see Ortiz is a good technical boxer. But when you’re fighting Wilder, he’s just waiting for that one punch to land and it’s night night.

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