BoxRec

If Ali never had to pause his career do you think Joe would have become world champion?

I know he beat Ali in the first fight but it’s a fight after Ali’s three years off which were arguably his prime years.

So assuming Ali keeps the title does Frazier beat Ali and become champion?

I don't know if Joe Frazier would have had the fire in his belly for the first fight like he did.
He was the HW champ in Ali's absence aand the ridicucle that was piled on him
for that when Ali came back in 1970.
The effort in that fight almost killed Frazier who had to spend several weeks in the hospital afterwards.

Smokin' Joe would beat Ali, even if Ali wouldn't be suspended. Frazier was all wrong for Ali stylistically and levels above anyone Ali had faced in his title defences.

I think Ali'd won because Frazier'd been too green and also the fact Ali beat him twice and also George Foreman (who beat Frazier twice to boot) shows Ali was a better athlete than Joe. Not taking anything away from Frazier as he'd been the best fighter in any other era with the possible exception of the Marciano, Louis, Jack Johnson and Dempsey eras.

Joe would still win their first fight.

I'd give Ali the edge especially if they fought in 1968 or 69. I can't get myself to say Frazier wouldn't have been a champion though.

Covfefe wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 15:00 If Ali never had to pause his career do you think Joe would have become world champion?

I know he beat Ali in the first fight but it’s a fight after Ali’s three years off which were arguably his prime years.

So assuming Ali keeps the title does Frazier beat Ali and become champion?

Absolutely, Joe was better in 69/70.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 12:42

Covfefe wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 15:00 If Ali never had to pause his career do you think Joe would have become world champion?

I know he beat Ali in the first fight but it’s a fight after Ali’s three years off which were arguably his prime years.

So assuming Ali keeps the title does Frazier beat Ali and become champion?

Absolutely, Joe was better in 69/70.

Better than the best Ali?

Do you not think Ali lost anything with the lay off? He never really moved as well afterwards.

Covfefe wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 16:11

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 12:42
Absolutely, Joe was better in 69/70.

Better than the best Ali?

Do you not think Ali lost anything with the lay off? He never really moved as well afterwards.

I don't think any Ali could beat that Frazier. Movement was going to stop that freight train, and that was after Joe broke his ankle. I don't think the younger, lighter Ali sees the final bell. Unpopular, but how I've always felt. Like the first Duran/Leonard. Sometimes the pressure is too much.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 16:45

Covfefe wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 16:11

Better than the best Ali?

Do you not think Ali lost anything with the lay off? He never really moved as well afterwards.

I don't think any Ali could beat that Frazier. Movement was going to stop that freight train, and that was after Joe broke his ankle. I don't think the younger, lighter Ali sees the final bell. Unpopular, but how I've always felt. Like the first Duran/Leonard. Sometimes the pressure is too much.

Cooper nearly beat Ali with a left hook, got to believe if Frazier landed it he would have.

Circumstance here created one of the biggest fights of all time between those two, the build up might not have been half as nasty if Ali was champion too. Frazier wouldn’t have goaded Ali the way Ali did Frazier.

It’s an interesting question though I think Frazier was good enough to win it too.

I don't think Frazier touches a prime Ali. Plus, all that extra 'motivation' that Joe had from the political backdrop and taunting by Ali leading up to the FOC wouldn't have been there. Would have been interesting though.

There may not have been a more determined fighter in history than FOTC Frazier and Frazier in his absolute prime IMO is a top three heavyweight of all-time. Arguably the only style disadvantages for him are Foreman and Liston. Ali was always going to lose fight I to Frazier IMO.

A great what if.
Hard to imagine him beating Ali in the late 1960s/early 1970s if Ali would have never have been suspended. An off night by Ali is the only way that would happened. Ali beat him in 1974 and 1975.
He may have gone down as the greatest non-champion ever.
Of course if Ali Foreman didn't exist, he would have been the champion for a really long time.

Challenger. Frazier was a non stop action fighter, but one that was flawed. His defense wasn't that good and he usually relied on the accumulative effect of his punches to wear down opponents. I never cared for that argument about alot of fighters, "Oh no one would ever have beaten him that night". If a guy's that good they'll be more than one great night. Prime Foreman KO's FOTC Frazier inside of 5 rds, because Joe was quite hittable then too.

Covfefe wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 16:53

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jan 2020, 16:45

I don't think any Ali could beat that Frazier. Movement was going to stop that freight train, and that was after Joe broke his ankle. I don't think the younger, lighter Ali sees the final bell. Unpopular, but how I've always felt. Like the first Duran/Leonard. Sometimes the pressure is too much.

Cooper nearly beat Ali with a left hook, got to believe if Frazier landed it he would have.

Circumstance here created one of the biggest fights of all time between those two, the build up might not have been half as nasty if Ali was champion too. Frazier wouldn’t have goaded Ali the way Ali did Frazier.

It’s an interesting question though I think Frazier was good enough to win it too.

Yes indeed because of the Political atmosphere of the time, and Ali's stance on the Vietnam War this became one of those rare fights that's "Bigger than Boxing"

It took on a meaning to people that meant so much more than just 2 guys fighting for the title.

Just like when Louis fight Schmeling. Different situation, but another case where the fight was bigger than just another fight.