BoxRec

Champion. Tyson Fury
1. Anthony Joshua
2. Dillian Whyte
3. Deontay Wilder
4. Luis Ortiz
5. Andy Ruiz Jr.
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Joseph Parker
8. Michael Hunter
9. Adam Kownacki
10. Oscar Rivas

Thoughts?

Luis Ortiz is overrated (he'll lose to Ruiz Jr.) and Dillian Whyte has a better resume than Deontay Wilder. ‘The Bronze Bomber’ also declined multiple career-high payday offers to face Dillian Whyte.

They've not ranked Oleksandr Usyk yet, but the skilful Ukraine needs to defeat a better opponent than a journeyman at heavyweight to earn a top-ten rating.

A decent list, but still Wilder should be after Fury and Joshua. And Ortiz should be after those three and the likes of Povetkin, Whyte, Ruiz, Pulev.

Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Finkel wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 13:52 Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Povetkin never hold any real belt...

How Ortiz is ranked so much higher than Rivas yet they share a best win? So does Joyce for that matter (on paper anyway).

Ruiz, Parker and Povetkin clearly have better records.

bigman1968 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 17:46

Finkel wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 13:52 Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Povetkin never hold any real belt...

You're right, it's the same status as the belt Canelo has at Super Middle, so I should retract the Champion remark. Still, that along with his gold medal is levels beyond anything Ortiz has won.

To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

joshj909 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 18:30 How Ortiz is ranked so much higher than Rivas yet they share a best win? So does Joyce for that matter (on paper anyway).

Ruiz, Parker and Povetkin clearly have better records.

It makes no sense to still have Ortiz that high at his age and based on his lack of resume.

After Pulev loses to Joshua are they going to insert Pulev in the rankings? He has only lost to Klitschko, has stayed active (the six month kissing ban didn't really effect him, as he just fought either side of it) and has beaten everyone who's wanted to challenge for his IBF mandatory position.

Not to mention Whyte preferred a payday to a final eliminator against him. That is more of a duck that any of the Ortiz boogieman nonsense.

So we have Kownacki, Hunter and Rivas rounding out the 10 but no Pulev.
PBC favouritism?

Transnational has

TBRB Champion Tyson Fury 30-0-1 (21) ENG 2
1 Anthony Joshua 23-1-0 (21) ENG 3
2 Deontay Wilder 42-1-1 (41) USA 1
3 Andy Ruiz Jr. 33-2-0 (22) USA 4
4 Dillian Whyte 27-1-0 (18) ENG 5
5 Luis Ortiz 31-2-0 (26) CUB 6
6 Alexander Povetkin 35-2-1 (24) RUS 7
7 Michael Hunter 18-1-1 (12) USA 8
8 Kubrat Pulev 27-1-0 (14) BUL 9
9 Filip Hrgovic 10-0-0 (8) HRV 10
10 Adam Kownacki

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 22:16 To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

Well, yeah, Thompson was 44 when he fought Ortiz

Malik Scott had also beaten Tony Thompson on points prior to that.

Jennings is a career gate keeper to the top 20. Destroying him coming off his first loss shouldn't have you @Ring4 four years and two losses later. I guess that Hammer performance must have really caught the eye.

Finkel wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 13:52 Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Who has Pulev beaten to deserve his usual top ten ranking? It's fair to say he's never beaten anyone of real quality. He has made a career of taking the right fights that will (1) result in a win (2) keep him relevant, and (3) maintain his ranking. Seems "The Ring" has got wise to him

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 22:16 To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

They really should have fought. I'd still really want to see it even though they are both past their best.

I think I was very guilty of overrating Ortiz. He was a Cuban and a veteran of a great many amateur contests. I think Cuban amateur heavyweight and I'm thinking Teofilo Stevenson. On top of that I rated Bryant Jennings and Ortiz crushed him like a bug which Wlad wasn't able to do. In retrospect Jennings subsequent career suggests Ortiz's win wasn't quite as stellar as I thought at the time. Also the glittering amateur career didn't amount to an Olympic medal or anything did it?

There is no doubt Ortiz deserves to regarded as still one of the best around but there was a time I thought he was the uncrowned champion. Povetkin too. Definitely one of the best for a long time but despite the gold medal he will be known for falling short in his two biggest tests, he doesn't really have a signature win.

I would love to have seen any fight between two of Ortiz, Povetkin, and Pulev when they were at their prime.

CBS Sports have today included Tyson Fury in their pound-for-pound ratings and have ranked him in eighth place.

ESPN and The RING’s pound-for-pound ratings haven’t been updated yet, but it seems inevitable that Fury will be included in ESPN’s, since they currently rate Deontay Wilder in ninth place.

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Feb 2020, 04:44

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 22:16 To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

They really should have fought. I'd still really want to see it even though they are both past their best.

I think I was very guilty of overrating Ortiz. He was a Cuban and a veteran of a great many amateur contests. I think Cuban amateur heavyweight and I'm thinking Teofilo Stevenson. On top of that I rated Bryant Jennings and Ortiz crushed him like a bug which Wlad wasn't able to do. In retrospect Jennings subsequent career suggests Ortiz's win wasn't quite as stellar as I thought at the time. Also the glittering amateur career didn't amount to an Olympic medal or anything did it?

There is no doubt Ortiz deserves to regarded as still one of the best around but there was a time I thought he was the uncrowned champion. Povetkin too. Definitely one of the best for a long time but despite the gold medal he will be known for falling short in his two biggest tests, he doesn't really have a signature win.

I would love to have seen any fight between two of Ortiz, Povetkin, and Pulev when they were at their prime.

Agree with this. He's good but nowhere near that good and I would like to see him face a top 15 opponent but Ortiz's amateur record has been sold as myth and legend by Wilder and PBC, but in reality he was just experienced but with no actual relevant victories, qualifications or trophies.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 22:16 To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

I have personally always considered Alexander Povetkin as being the better more proven fighter (in their primes) than Luis Ortiz. And here are some reason to explain why:

• Luis Ortiz never won a major international tournament in the amateurs, whereas Alexander Povetkin captured gold medals in the Europeans (twice), the worlds and also the Olympics.

• Luis Ortiz has only ever faced one man that was a former/current world champion, which was the two Wilder defeats, whereas Alexander Povetkin faced eight, beating six of them.

• Alexander Povetkin’s only losses came against guaranteed future Hall-of-Famers (Anthony Joshua and Wladimir Klitschko), whereas Luis Ortiz was defeated by Deontay Wilder (with ‘The Bronze Bomber’ lacking credible names on his own record).

• Alexander Povetkin has fought and beaten many more top-ten RING rated heavyweights than Luis Ortiz has.

• The Russian has also competed in seven world title bouts, winning five of them, whereas the Cuban has participated in two (winning none).

• If you review the combined win-loss-draws records of their last twenty opponents, Povetkin’s foes have a 92%-win rate (567 of 622 bouts), whereas Ortiz’s victims only have as 79%-win rate (445 of 564 bouts).

• There are documented instances of Luis Ortiz rejecting opportunities to face the likes of Dillian Whyte and Anthony Joshua, but I don’t believe that Alexander Povetkin has ever done such a thing (with the Russian having already agreed to face ‘The Body Snatcher’ this May).

Finkel wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 13:52 Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Last I checked Ortiz and Povetkin were close to the same age, about 6 months apart. 41?

Same age, same love of drugs

Now I don't profess to know a whole lot about it but many rumours have persisted down the years about Ortiz's claimed age. Suffice to say he admits to being 41 so that's the minimum he can be. Many people have claimed he's nearer to fifty and that due to the unreliable record system in Cuba you can be any age you want to be, but I can't say whether there is any truth to that

Now EO is going to give me a bollocking for peddling idle speculation and unproven rumour. Sorry EO

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Feb 2020, 09:15Now EO is going to give me a bollocking for peddling idle speculation and unproven rumour. Sorry EO

Far from it.

Bandog wrote: ↑26 Feb 2020, 08:52

Finkel wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 13:52 Ortiz (age 43) was beaten by KO by Wilder #3 twice, yet is ranked @4

Ruiz Jr. (Age 30) former champion who beat Joshua #1, was beat on points by Joshua #1 and close loss to Parker #7, ranked @5

Povetkin (age 40) former champion who was KO'd by Joshua #1 and prime Klitschko, ranked @6

Parker (age 28) former champion beaten on points by Joshua #1 and loses a very close fight to Whyte #2, ranked @7

I would be very interested to hear their justification for Ortiz @4

Where is Pulev?

Last I checked Ortiz and Povetkin were close to the same age, about 6 months apart. 41?

There was an interview on the Joe Rogan podcast with the Cuban Yoel Romero.
He knew Ortiz from back in the day. And was adamant that they were the same age. Its not proof, but given the murky world of birth certificates, I lean toward this guy's word, and that Ortiz looks old as the hills:

Go to 1:07:43
The show was recorded the same month as the Ortiz Wilder 1 fight (Ortiz was still "38")
They talk about Teófilo Stevenson
Then about Ortiz being same age group as Yoel Romero as they were at the Olympic Center in Cuba together. He puts him at 40/41, but at a minimum 39. Either way its older than his registered age in the US.


Rick Glaser thinks he's 48

Ortiz is mystifyingly high as others have said, but Povetkin really baffles me. In the last two years aside from losing to AJ he has only beaten Price and Hughie Fury and drawn with Hunter who is ranked below him...

Parker should probably be removed, he has done absolute jack for what, 3-4 years now?

Also sticking in Rivas at #10 is pretty questionable when they've omitted Pulev and Chisora. Hell I think even Martin has a better argument for #10 after beating Washington.

jujigatame wrote: ↑26 Feb 2020, 11:40Parker should probably be removed, he has done absolute jack for what, 3-4 years now?

He’s still dining out on his excellent performances during 2018 against Joshua and Whyte, as well as his 2016 victory over Ruiz Jr., which admittedly are fairly impressive feats in comparison to what some of his fellow top-ten peers have accomplished (i.e. compare his resume to those of the Wilder, Hunter, Ortiz, Kownacki and Rivas).

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Feb 2020, 04:44

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020, 22:16 To me they seem like similar level fighters who for a while have been ranked around each other. They shoulda fought

Ort has the nice destruction of Jennings. Then shutting out Scott and stopping Tony as his next best, though a Tony that was at the end of the line and had already lost 11 out of 12 rounds to Takam a few years before

Pov has a lot of good B level wins like Takam, Chag, Chambers, Duhaupas, Perez, etc but nothing really like 'wow that's hot!' . He prob has the better resume overall but I'd rank them around the same.

They really should have fought. I'd still really want to see it even though they are both past their best.

I think I was very guilty of overrating Ortiz. He was a Cuban and a veteran of a great many amateur contests. I think Cuban amateur heavyweight and I'm thinking Teofilo Stevenson. On top of that I rated Bryant Jennings and Ortiz crushed him like a bug which Wlad wasn't able to do. In retrospect Jennings subsequent career suggests Ortiz's win wasn't quite as stellar as I thought at the time. Also the glittering amateur career didn't amount to an Olympic medal or anything did it?

There is no doubt Ortiz deserves to regarded as still one of the best around but there was a time I thought he was the uncrowned champion. Povetkin too. Definitely one of the best for a long time but despite the gold medal he will be known for falling short in his two biggest tests, he doesn't really have a signature win.

I would love to have seen any fight between two of Ortiz, Povetkin, and Pulev when they were at their prime.

Jennings was Ortiz's best performance. After that he was on the slide. Then Eddie dropped him off the books for two straight poor performances, and deemed him not worthy of a fight with AJ. Next minute he is some boogyman and people gave props to Wilder for beating him. Even though Ortiz gave Wilder kittens in the fight, that only goes to show how bad Wilder is, not hoe good Ortiz is. Ortiz was an exciting prospect after Jennings, then got old overnight and has been sliding for 4 years.