BoxRec

Following on from Evander Holyfield 5 in 5 Ive made one on Larry Holmes. The best jab in the business and in some real wars.

Really talented boxer. I hoped he would be the next Ali.
But he was such an asshole. And not a funny one like Ali.
Just an asshole. Oh well.
But solid jab, good power, above average movement.
Talents that are scarce today.

If he was a nicer guy they might have given him a decision
over Spinks. I think he pissed some folks off.

Yeah he always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder, he thought he deserved the same recognition as Ali.

I lost a lot of respect for Holmes recently when I read old newspaper articles about the horrible verbal abuse that he directed towards Eddie Futch and Ray Arcel during his training for the Cooney bout. Arcel was old enough to be his grandfather.

He might not have won any personality contests but he an excellent heavyweight, who was in some great fights spanning the eras of Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. As mentioned above, I think he was embittered by not being accorded the respect and admiration bestowed on Ali.

The best for me was the classic with Ken Norton but that was a lot harder than I'd expected. One which proved easier than I expected was the Cooney fight. At that time Gerry looked a terrifying proposition; in his three fights leading up to Holmes he'd stopped Jimmy Young (who once gave Big George something of a boxing lesson) and done a one round demolition job on both Ken Norton and the very dangerous (ask Foreman about that) Ron Lyle.

There were shades of George Foreman and Mike Tyson in the reputation that Gerry Cooney was developing in terms of the awe and the intimidation factor. I wasn't anywhere near as surprised by how Holmes managed to difuse Cooney probably only because I'd learnt my lesson from The Rumble in theJungle, but it was a very impressive display nevertheless.

The Cooney fight was still a battle and not really as much of a schooling as often depicted, Larry got hurt by body shots and had to dig deep and work hard to win late. I would rate it among Cooney's best performances even though he lost, I think the Foreman and Spinks fights were more reflective of his level

boxings first wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 11:20 Following on from Evander Holyfield 5 in 5 Ive made one on Larry Holmes. The best jab in the business and in some real wars.

I think this thread belongs to the Boxing History section, not current.

But it's a nice video anyway.

goose 5 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 14:35 I lost a lot of respect for Holmes recently when I read old newspaper articles about the horrible verbal abuse that he directed towards Eddie Futch and Ray Arcel during his training for the Cooney bout. Arcel was old enough to be his grandfather.

Why was he pissed at his trainers? Never heard that.

The build up for that fight made a few ugly turns...from both sides

holmes in his prime was a problem for any hw in history

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 18:46

goose 5 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 14:35 I lost a lot of respect for Holmes recently when I read old newspaper articles about the horrible verbal abuse that he directed towards Eddie Futch and Ray Arcel during his training for the Cooney bout. Arcel was old enough to be his grandfather.

Why was he pissed at his trainers? Never heard that.

i dont have the answer, but i know that holmes had an aggressiv personality

snake33 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 13:14 Really talented boxer. I hoped he would be the next Ali.
But he was such an asshole. And not a funny one like Ali.
Just an asshole. Oh well.
But solid jab, good power, above average movement.
Talents that are scarce today.

If he was a nicer guy they might have given him a decision
over Spinks. I think he pissed some folks off.

Very nice guy.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑28 Mar 2020, 17:07 The Cooney fight was still a battle and not really as much of a schooling as often depicted, Larry got hurt by body shots and had to dig deep and work hard to win late. I would rate it among Cooney's best performances even though he lost, I think the Foreman and Spinks fights were more reflective of his level

I think the reason it is depicted as Cooney getting schooled isn't because the fight was uncompetetive but because up until that point Gerry had it all his own way and was developing a fearsome reputation. Norton was no big shock (Foreman/ Shavers) but his despatch of the formidable Ron Lyle impressed me greatly ... and then he met the Master.

RonnyJ wrote: ↑29 Mar 2020, 00:35 holmes in his prime was a problem for any hw in history

You won't get any argument from me about that.

He won 2 or 3 rds. Chaplin was his only remotely impressive victory to me.

Holmes the second best heavyweight in history behind Ali.

Larry was a great fighter who had to endure some crap coming up, so I can understand the anger and bitterness he has. He shouldn't have snapped at Futch and Arcel, probably stressed out from that toxic environment concerning Cooney. My only issues with Larry are that he didn't unify the title and he ducked several fighters near the end, but there were circumstances concerning both.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 08:37 Holmes the second best heavyweight in history behind Ali.

Certainly the best student of Ali's. Larry learned to adopt some of the good and avoid some of the worst.

No one gave Holmes anything - so full respect to Larry. I'll forgive him for the unnecessary Ali beating and the even more unnecessary Marciano comment.

I seem to recall that during Holmes reign there was quite a bit of talk about how weak the division was and how his impressive record was due in part to the fact that no formidable opponent was around to properly challenge him.

This is not to say that there WERE no formidable opponents, merely that the perception at the time was that he was the champion in a weak era. This no doubt stemmed from how strong the 70s seemed to be in the heavyweight division. I hear much less of that kind of talk now.

History and perception are funny, it makes me wonder what people might say about Wladimir Klitschko in 30 years? It might be surprising.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 12:22

IRONFIST wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 08:37 Holmes the second best heavyweight in history behind Ali.

Certainly the best student of Ali's. Larry learned to adopt some of the good and avoid some of the worst.

No one gave Holmes anything - so full respect to Larry. I'll forgive him for the unnecessary Ali beating and the even more unnecessary Marciano comment.

Also don't forget he was pulling many punches against Ali, hitting to the arms and side to spare Ali getting further punishment. He was also in tears afterwards for what had happened. The Marciano comment was unnecessary but he said he didn't mean any harm by it, locker room talk etc.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑03 Apr 2020, 07:45

Thomastearns wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 12:22

Certainly the best student of Ali's. Larry learned to adopt some of the good and avoid some of the worst.

No one gave Holmes anything - so full respect to Larry. I'll forgive him for the unnecessary Ali beating and the even more unnecessary Marciano comment.

Also don't forget he was pulling many punches against Ali, hitting to the arms and side to spare Ali getting further punishment. He was also in tears afterwards for what had happened. The Marciano comment was unnecessary but he said he didn't mean any harm by it, locker room talk etc.

Yeah, you've got to love Larry Holmes.

Following Ali and preceding Tyson meant Larry didn't always get the acclaim they did, but boxing fans appreciate him nonetheless.

Here's a fascinating Sky Sports Boxing interview full of anecdotes with Johnny Nelson and Adam Smith from 5/6 years back.

Really shows the man.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 08:37 Holmes the second best heavyweight in history behind Ali.

I have Ali #1 and Holmes top 5. I have Louis #2, but a modern Louis would be 215.

Sssshhhh Maggie will hear you

Thomastearns wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 07:44

IRONFIST wrote: ↑03 Apr 2020, 07:45

Also don't forget he was pulling many punches against Ali, hitting to the arms and side to spare Ali getting further punishment. He was also in tears afterwards for what had happened. The Marciano comment was unnecessary but he said he didn't mean any harm by it, locker room talk etc.

Yeah, you've got to love Larry Holmes.

Following Ali and preceding Tyson meant Larry didn't always get the acclaim they did, but boxing fans appreciate him nonetheless.

Here's a fascinating Sky Sports Boxing interview full of anecdotes with Johnny Nelson and Adam Smith from 5/6 years back.

Really shows the man.

Yeah I made sure I saw this at the time. The seemingly ageless Tim Witherspoon interview with Bunce was a good insight too.

Larry Holmes was a great fighter.Did he duck a few guys trying to break Rocky's record?

Maybe.But did he come to win,and retaliate like a grizzly when hurt? Definitely.The best 1 - 2 in the business plus that uppercut.

Was he nasty and bad tempered at times? Yes,but he's human.Most people can be.
Holmes is one of the greats at Heavyweight.Great killer instinct ,ring generalship,tough ,savvy ,great chin.A top 5 heavyweight I think.

zuru wrote: ↑08 May 2020, 19:47 Larry Holmes was a great fighter.Did he duck a few guys trying to break Rocky's record?

Maybe.But did he come to win,and retaliate like a grizzly when hurt? Definitely.The best 1 - 2 in the business plus that uppercut.

Was he nasty and bad tempered at times? Yes,but he's human.Most people can be.
Holmes is one of the greats at Heavyweight.Great killer instinct ,ring generalship,tough ,savvy ,great chin.A top 5 heavyweight I think.

I don't think Holmes really ducked anybody, just wasn't part of a particularly strong era.