BoxRec

It's often been said 'The Gifted One' was one of the most talented fighters to never win a world title. He was of course notoriously inconsistent, liked to party and not train properly. Was his talent over-rated or with the right mindset and discipline could he have been a world champion?

Kirkland Laing in my opinion wasnt anything better than Euro level. I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

Laing like Herol Graham was a tricky boxer and im not saying he couldnt have won a world belt as Herol could have done so as well, but Im not going to say Kirkland was a world class boxer.

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:21 It's often been said 'The Gifted One' was one of the most talented fighters to never win a world title. He was of course notoriously inconsistent, liked to party and not train properly. Was his talent over-rated or with the right mindset and discipline could he have been a world champion?

One of the gifts about being great, or at least a world champ is consistency, about doing it when it matters, and a big part of this is lifestyle and training.

Laing was certainly tremendously gifted but he lacked the other things listed, as well as chin.

Herol Graham was gifted and lived pretty well, trained hard too, but lacked chin and the mentality for the big occasion.

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

I saw many fighters who looked great in the gym but we're always poor for fight night.

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:31 Kirkland Laing in my opinion wasnt anything better than Euro level. I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

Laing like Herol Graham was a tricky boxer and im not saying he couldnt have won a world belt as Herol could have done so as well, but Im not going to say Kirkland was a world class boxer.

Agree with this

TBH, I think barring the Duran win, he is actually pretty consistent in winning vs who you might expect him to but then losing vs who you might expect him to. To me he has all the hallmarks of a guy who simply had an anamolous best result above his general level

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:31 I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

I've heard this about Duran but was that true? Duran was aged 31 with a 74-3 record when he fought Laing, plus he had a 6lb weight advantage. 9 months later Duran would beat Davey Moore for the title and then give Hagler hell in his following fight. If anyone was up and down it was Laing, he was sparked in his next fight.



.

Ya, guys much better than Laing

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:43

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:31 I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

I've heard this about Duran but was that true? Duran was aged 31 with a 74-3 record when he fought Laing, plus he had a 6lb weight advantage. 9 months later Duran would beat Davey Moore for the title and then give Hagler hell in his following fight. If anyone was up and down it was Laing, he was sparked in his next fight.

Aside from Duran and right after, where are the major ups and then downs/downs and then up for Kirk?

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:43

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:31 I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

I've heard this about Duran but was that true? Duran was aged 31 with a 74-3 record when he fought Laing, plus he had a 6lb weight advantage. 9 months later Duran would beat Davey Moore for the title and then give Hagler hell in his following fight. If anyone was up and down it was Laing, he was sparked in his next fight.



.

Laing was a decent boxer but as I say he and Graham had serious flaws to be a world champion. Laing was beating Buck Smith quite well then 'Boom' just as Graham v Jackson.

He's one of my old favourites, I grew up watching him over the past 6-7 years of his career, and have always wondered what might have been had he been fully committed. His unusual style made for great performances at domestic and european level, one of my favourites is him winning the european title against 37-1-1 Antonio Fernandez, that guy didn't have a scooby doo what to do with Laing and got blitzed in two rounds. I think if Kirkland had been around in the era of more title belts, he'd have become a world champion. I suppose his skillset was less effective against better fighters, I just loved watching him at domestic and european level when he was in the mood.

I only saw a few of his fights. He looked really good, almost like he wasn’t going all out, then he‘d close the show. Although, not always - Buck Smith!

The only person who beat kirk was himself the guy had everything apart from discipline such a waste of a magnificent talent

Coco wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:33

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:21 It's often been said 'The Gifted One' was one of the most talented fighters to never win a world title. He was of course notoriously inconsistent, liked to party and not train properly. Was his talent over-rated or with the right mindset and discipline could he have been a world champion?

Herol Graham was gifted and lived pretty well, trained hard too, but lacked chin and the mentality for the big occasion.

You are being harsh on the herols chin because he got stopped by the most murderous Puncher that ever lived. He was hardly Enzo. His chin stood up against many other big boys

Coco wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:33 One of the gifts about being great, or at least a world champ is consistency, about doing it when it matters, and a big part of this is lifestyle and training.

Absolutely nailed it Coco. For some reason people give a pass to 'mental' flaws in way they don't with physical ones. Whether it's in sport or in business, consistency for me is right up there with the most under-rated values - for example, plenty of footballers have scored goals like Messi, but the difference is they do it once or twice in a career, he does it once or twice in a game.

Every fighter and every trainer , out there will always have , a story about , this guy that guy ,, who could play with everyone in the gym without trying , and could of been the champ , but for some reason did'nt ..... But the facts are wether it was lack of chin , lack of stamina , or lack of willpower , they did'nt become champ ,,, And thats why we have Champs , because they can do it ... Old Trainer i knew used to say ,, If you take these greats , and cut them up ,, somewhere in there you will find something the rest of us lack , and they have ,

And that my freinds is why some are good , and some are CHAMPS

Shhhh wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 05:29
A lot of these ‘elusive’ Ingle type fighters look really superb against competition at a certain level. Then they move up and a quality fighter doesn’t fall so easily for their tricks. I think that’s the case with Herol.

It wasn't the case with Naseem who won the WBO title, the IBF title, beat the WBA champion and was undefeated as an 'elusive' Ingle fighter.
It also wasn't the case for Johnny another 'elusive' Ingle fighter who retired through injury after being an undefeated world champion for 7 and a half years.

Shhhh wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 05:29

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:50


Laing was a decent boxer but as I say he and Graham had serious flaws to be a world champion. Laing was beating Buck Smith quite well then 'Boom' just as Graham v Jackson.

Yeah people always say graham best fighter never to win. World title. But he had 3 tries. Also lost to Frank Grant and Kalambay.
Laing - talent and could’ve won a world title these days but he just didn’t live the life properly with weeed. He always looked in shape though.

A lot of these ‘elusive’ Ingle type fighters look really superb against competition at a certain level. Then they move up and a quality fighter doesn’t fall so easily for their tricks. I think that’s the case with Herol.

No shame in losing to Kalambay. Many thought Herol was robbed in their 2nd fight. Train himself for Grant fight won every round then ran out of steam... taking nothing away from Grant. Lost on a split to McCallum with point deduction costing him a draw. Apart from Grant he lost to fighters who were world champions at some point

I knew Kirkland very well, we sparred a few times, very talented, but enjoyed the spliff more often than not, I picked him up to fight buck smith, his flat smelt of weed, , he lost that that night, I think more from his lifestyle, more than his boxing...

ERIC GUY wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 08:39 I knew Kirkland very well, we sparred a few times, very talented, but enjoyed the spliff more often than not, I picked him up to fight buck smith, his flat smelt of weed, , he lost that that night, I think more from his lifestyle, more than his boxing...

An old pal of mine told me that Laing would get the better of the Ragamuffin in sparring in North London. Did you ever see any of this?

Coco wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:33

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:21 It's often been said 'The Gifted One' was one of the most talented fighters to never win a world title. He was of course notoriously inconsistent, liked to party and not train properly. Was his talent over-rated or with the right mindset and discipline could he have been a world champion?

One of the gifts about being great, or at least a world champ is consistency, about doing it when it matters, and a big part of this is lifestyle and training.

Laing was certainly tremendously gifted but he lacked the other things listed, as well as chin.

Herol Graham was gifted and lived pretty well, trained hard too, but lacked chin and the mentality for the big occasion.

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

I saw many fighters who looked great in the gym but we're always poor for fight night.

Talent doesn't really mean much without hard work, a lad I grew up with had some amazing skills with a football that put the rest of us to shame but he was overweight and also had no bottle out on the pitch.

Pugilist-specialist wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 12:26

ERIC GUY wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 08:39 I knew Kirkland very well, we sparred a few times, very talented, but enjoyed the spliff more often than not, I picked him up to fight buck smith, his flat smelt of weed, , he lost that that night, I think more from his lifestyle, more than his boxing...

An old pal of mine told me that Laing would get the better of the Ragamuffin in sparring in North London. Did you ever see any of this?

I read in Frank Bruno's book that Laing and Honeyghans sparring sessions were more entertaining than most world title fights.

ERIC GUY wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 08:39 I knew Kirkland very well, we sparred a few times, very talented, but enjoyed the spliff more often than not, I picked him up to fight buck smith, his flat smelt of weed, , he lost that that night, I think more from his lifestyle, more than his boxing...

Interesting, did he train regularly but just smoked a lot of weed or did he not really train either?

Coco wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:33

Controversial wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:21 It's often been said 'The Gifted One' was one of the most talented fighters to never win a world title. He was of course notoriously inconsistent, liked to party and not train properly. Was his talent over-rated or with the right mindset and discipline could he have been a world champion?

One of the gifts about being great, or at least a world champ is consistency, about doing it when it matters, and a big part of this is lifestyle and training.

Laing was certainly tremendously gifted but he lacked the other things listed, as well as chin.

Herol Graham was gifted and lived pretty well, trained hard too, but lacked chin and the mentality for the big occasion.

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

I saw many fighters who looked great in the gym but we're always poor for fight night.

Herol Graham lacked chin? Bollocks. People say this on the basis of being hit with the best punch ever thrown by the hardest puncher of his generation. Herol's beard was fine, but you're not wrong about his mindset. He could be off on a big night. Wasn't against Jackson or McCallum though, and I had him winning against McCallum.

SamWise72 wrote: ↑09 Apr 2020, 18:34

Coco wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:33

One of the gifts about being great, or at least a world champ is consistency, about doing it when it matters, and a big part of this is lifestyle and training.

Laing was certainly tremendously gifted but he lacked the other things listed, as well as chin.

Herol Graham was gifted and lived pretty well, trained hard too, but lacked chin and the mentality for the big occasion.

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

I saw many fighters who looked great in the gym but we're always poor for fight night.

Herol Graham lacked chin? Bollocks. People say this on the basis of being hit with the best punch ever thrown by the hardest puncher of his generation. Herol's beard was fine, but you're not wrong about his mindset. He could be off on a big night. Wasn't against Jackson or McCallum though, and I had him winning against McCallum.

Yes I agree. Graham started slipping after the Jackson knockout. If you made a list of the greatest one punch hitters Jackson would be in it so I don't think that loss meant Graham was somehow chinny.

I used to love watching Kirkland Laing. He
was masterful in turning back the challenges of Rocky Kelly, George Collins and Trevor Smith. Undoubtedly talented with a stiff punch. Lots of quality names on his record and a career to be proud of.

I hold Laing in high regard but won't let that affect judging where I thought he stood in boxing, which is high level British champion, a fair EBU champion, but lower top ten world title contender. I think any fairly solid world champion beats him although it would have been lovely to see him get a crack

I think Colin Jones drew the line that separated Kirkland from true world class. The fact Jones tonked him twice adds weight to this argument IMO.

Nevertheless, Laing will be fondly remembered

MasterG wrote: ↑08 Apr 2020, 15:31 Kirkland Laing in my opinion wasnt anything better than Euro level. I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

Laing like Herol Graham was a tricky boxer and im not saying he couldnt have won a world belt as Herol could have done so as well, but Im not going to say Kirkland was a world class boxer.

I disagree. Laing in opinion was one of the most talented British boxers ever to lace on a pair of gloves and most definitely world class. The only thing that stopped him from becoming a world champ and becoming all time great was his lack of self discipline .

Having said that, having self discipline and desire is also part of the make up of becoming an elite fighter. Floyd Mayweather is a perfect example of this