BoxRec

Since we're in a hof mood, just wondering about who you feel should be mentioned for this, obviously Vitali Quitchko, but who else?

Vitali was reigning with defending against the remains left by his brother, who was facing the best opposition possible, but still it's hard not to imagine a long-reigning major belt holder not to be inducted. By the moments of Vitali's fights against them, the likes of Sanders, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Adamek were seen as top-10 fighters, while Gomez, Arreola and Solis were mandatories for WBC back then. Also some of the fighters he faced were seen as undefeated contenders. Although retrospectively and historically not all of those wins look important. Retrospectively his wins over Sanders, Peter, Adamek and Chisora were the most important, because these fighters were more or less convincing and consistent with their careers. And his most memorable and career defining performance was a great effort, but still a loss against Lewis. So, he's a one of the weakest inductees indeed.


Anyway, I would name, for example, Willard the weaker. He had only one big win and nothing really important apart from it.

Barry McGuigan

i am Italian and loved watching him fight on Saturday afternoons, but Ray Mancini. I am a huge Donald Curry fan and when Ray was inducted ahead of Donald I found that puzzling. Granted he had some horrible showings after Honeyghan, but he unified the welterweight title and one the super welterweight title later. He is arguably the best welterweight after the Leonard/Benitez/Hearns/Duran era. Ray defended against inferior opponents and at times struggled immensely. He only held the WBA version and at times wasn’t even the best champion in his division(Arguello, Camacho, Rosario). It hurts me to say this because I like Ray. Don’t think accomplishments merit HOF. I think like baseball the sport evolved to a point where a Willard seems and rightfully so primitive. But in his day he was a huge heavyweight. Fighters were different. Is Floyd as good as Ray Robinson? Not in my opinion. But Floyd is arguably the best of his era.

Barry McGuigan was the first name that came to mind.

Pedroza was ancient when Barry beat him.

Would have been a different story if Mcguigan had to have fought Azumah Nelson.

The americans really fell for McGuigan
The uniting Ireland thing did it I think....

Vitali is in a league of his own. Nobody else in there never beat at least one really good fighter.

Gatti has no business in there, but comparing resumes with vit he's a legend.

Pipino cuevas was as feared as they get. I think he had three straight fights where he broke jaw, jaw, ribs, but Weston, espada and shields were just good fighters.

I like McGuigan and Mancini a lot but I don’t think they belong. They were excellent in their short primes and definitely transcended but for what the hall is supposed to be, no. Absolutely love Daniel Zaragoza too and I understand his longevity and late career surge but he was never a great fighter. Love Gatti too, but we all know that was wrong.


I think Nasseem Hamed, Hector Camacho, Winky Wright, Randy Turpin are very fortunate too. Wright perhaps even more than those two and I don’t think they should be there though a decent argument can be made they should be.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 11:56 I honestly don’t think the following should be in: Julian Jackson, Donald Curry, Buddy McGirt, Vitali Klit, Riddick Bowe, Jeff Chandler, Curtis Cokes, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palamino, Laszlo Papp, Ingemar Johansson, Jose Torres, just off the modern inductees theres probably some old timers that are lacking too.

Bowe should be in fore sure. His resume was good and his Holyfield trilogy, which he won btw, is pure gold for boxing.

Johansson should be in as well. Decent resume including the legendary trilogy with Patterson.

The take 3 no matter what has led to some questionable selections

If this were a resume based hof like other sports gatti would never be in. But i get why he is... he was literally the best action fighter of the last generation and mr hbo

Heavyweights seem to have a lower standard for induction hence klitschko and johannson. Bowe certainly has a better resume than those 2

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 14:09 The take 3 no matter what has led to some questionable selections

If this were a resume based hof like other sports gatti would never be in. But i get why he is... he was literally the best action fighter of the last generation and mr hbo

Heavyweights seem to have a lower standard for induction hence klitschko and johannson. Bowe certainly has a better resume than those 2

Is Bowe not in, but Johansson is? Because if so that's insanity.

I have the Boxing Hall of Fame book around here somewhere, but it's easy to forget who all is in there sometimes. I've read through it twice. Every now and again I revisit it.

No they are both in i believe

They are both in.

The IBHOF first inductees were in 1990. For the first 11 years or so, the selections were pretty good. It was certainly better than some Hall of Fames in other sports. Sure some guys had not made it that I thought were probably better than some that did. We are never going to have people in full agreement.
However, you could make at least some kind of case for just about everyone that was in at this point, though there were some that was stretching it Chalky Wright who somehow got in in 1997 was the biggest head scratcher for me.

Then it all seemed to change in 2001. Jimmy Braddock got in. I thought, huh? What was the reasoning for that?
Then in 2002, Sixto Escobar got in. Again, where did that come from?
Then in 2003, it was Jess Willard.

From then on, there had sporadically been some inductees with very weak cases. It culminated in 2018 with a guy who had no case at all. It had hit rock bottom.

Someone mentioned that they need to get someone fairly recent (obviously living )to get people to come to the Induction Ceremony and to create interest for people to visit. However, there has to be someone better than some of the selections that were made.

A high percentage of the voters, like Dan Rafael, are only aware of recent fighters. Boxing couldn't be more minor in the States now. Just a bunch of bloggers, no journalists.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 17:34 A high percentage of the voters, like Dan Rafael, are only aware of recent fighters. Boxing couldn't be more minor in the States now. Just a bunch of bloggers, no journalists.

Yeah, you can always tell Dan has a limited knowledge on past legends.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 11:56 I like McGuigan and Mancini a lot but I don’t think they belong. They were excellent in their short primes and definitely transcended but for what the hall is supposed to be, no. Absolutely love Daniel Zaragoza too and I understand his longevity and late career surge but he was never a great fighter. Love Gatti too, but we all know that was wrong.

I honestly don’t think the following should be in: Julian Jackson, Donald Curry, Buddy McGirt, Vitali Klit, Riddick Bowe, Jeff Chandler, Curtis Cokes, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palamino, Laszlo Papp, Ingemar Johansson, Jose Torres, just off the modern inductees theres probably some old timers that are lacking too.

I think Nasseem Hamed, Hector Camacho, Winky Wright, Randy Turpin are very fortunate too. Wright perhaps even more than those two and I don’t think they should be there though a decent argument can be made they should be.

I think you have to high expectations on Inductees ,many of the names you mentioned have stronger claims than many older fighters , Naz was the number one feather weight for several years beating many world champions he did under train and under achieve but he still achieved a lot . Julian Jackson a 2 weight champion and generally considered the hardest puncher ever .

Jackson is more deserving than Norris.

Not sure why winky would be below those other guys. He has 3 dominant wins over hof fighters.

Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:22 Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

Not including Jeff Chandler seems a little crazy too.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:28

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:22 Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

Not including Jeff Chandler seems a little crazy too.

Yeah, Chandler is probably better than all the ones I mentioned. Thinking more about it I think he’s fine there but there’s other bantams that IMO did more and were better that didn’t make it: Herrera, Castillo, Martinez, Medel jump out right away.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:22 Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

Why?

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:22 Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

I don't see Cuevos being so great either.

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 19:03

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:22 Cuevas doesn't belong??? Give your head a shake

I don't see Cuevos being so great either.

His big run was that he made 10 title defenses prior to getting knocked out by Hearns, but he wasn't seen as THE Champion I don't believe. Just a beltholder. Certainly a good one though.

Youngest welter champ I believe.
12-1 in title fights
11 straight defenses 10 by KO
A devastating puncher..underated in my opinion shame he's mostly remembered getting destroyed by Hearns and Duran..no shame in that.
I guess 11 title defenses almost all by KO grow on trees

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 19:08 Youngest welter champ I believe.
12-1 in title fights
11 straight defenses 10 by KO
A devastating puncher..underated in my opinion shame he's mostly remembered getting destroyed by Hearns and Duran..no shame in that.
I guess 11 title defenses almost all by KO grow on trees

I remember him well. Most people look at his record and don't remember how feared he was before hearns. That was a pick um fight. That being said, his best win was probably Harold Weston. Whom you beat matters more than how many defenses and how many kos.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 19:08 Youngest welter champ I believe.
12-1 in title fights
11 straight defenses 10 by KO
A devastating puncher..underated in my opinion shame he's mostly remembered getting destroyed by Hearns and Duran..no shame in that.
I guess 11 title defenses almost all by KO grow on trees

Never won a big fight.