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McDonnell is dellusional I think. He says if it wasnt for the torrid 1st round Williams would have won. Also says the thing he saw in Klitschko is he can only move to his left and if you get him moving the other way he's like a duck out of water. All the gym work was forcing sparring partners the other way and they couldnt handle it. Well thats sparring partners not Klitschko.

He also says the weight was not an issue, is he the only one who cant see that Williams was a sitting duck at that weight? He says "With Danny, he doesn't eat very much (yeah right) and has a low body fat content (ahem) so to get any lighter he'd really need to diet hard." I'm sorry but that is utter bull, Williams body was muscular but definitely soft in places and I fail to see how all that weight is any good for him.

He needs to lose at least a stone and preferably more he's horrible at that weight.

Fact is while McDonnell is a great fitness coach a good cornerman/tactician he is clearly not.

danny Williams stated in an interview in uppercut that he loved eating chocolate and junk food, and that in between fights he liked to stuff himself, so that seems rather incredulous.

It seems to me that their whole gameplan relied on Danny being able to live with Klitchsko physically and that's why the extra weight was there.

I like Danny and McDonnell but It worries me that history seems to be being reinvented here. Yes the 1st round ruined everything, but it was because Danny walked into a shot. He just wasn't able to get out of the way of the stream of constant punches, Danny wasn't able to force klitchsko one way or the other, he was too busy eating shots. The lack of head or upper body movement made him a sitting duck.

Exactly. I cant recall Williams having much upper body or head movement at all since he bulked up. When he was fighting at 240 or so earlier in his career he was much more fluid.

So they only had the one fight plan..very proffesional.

007 wrote:Exactly. I cant recall Williams having much upper body or head movement at all since he bulked up. When he was fighting at 240 or so earlier in his career he was much more fluid.

he was pretty fluid against Sprott, even though he weighed in at 263, he looked more trim though. I wonder also whether they were seduced by the idea that if danny could whack Tyson into submission, they could do the same to Vitali/

danny's weight fluctuates far too much, it seems obvious he has a love affair with the fridge. He started his career at 227, two years later, he weighs in at 253 against Shane woolass, two contests later he's back at 237, in 2000 he weighed in at 260 against Anton Nel, and yet against keith long he weighs only 234!

Williams must let himself go between fights for his weight to vary that enormously. To go from 227 at 21, to 270 at 31 is a massive fluctuation.

I'm not saying he is unfit, as he obviously isn't, but he must really be piling it on between fights.

Looking fluid against Sprott is an altogether different proposition to doing it against world class fighters. He should be a max of 240, the guy is 6'1 for crying out loud. Weighing in at 270 was a disgrace and took away even his slim chance of winning. At 270 I dont think he'd beat Skelton let alone the top guys.

Danny said after the Tyson fight "I will have to be much lighter for the Klitchsko fight", "Being this weight was a tactic because I was fighting a smaller guy with a fearsome punch - I needed strength" (Not exact quotes, but as good as). "For Klitchsko, I need to beat him to the punch an be as fast as can be".

What does he do? Come in at 19 stone. You NEED footspeed to beat Klitchsko and you also need to throw combinations. Klitchko's awkard sway back stops a one punch from connecting. Sanders gave him hell early on, why cause he threw combinations and moved in quickly.

Danny said he was going to do that, that is why I gave him a chance - if Danny did that now, I would still give him a chance. Instead, he fought like he did vs Samil Sam (EXACTLY). I am still angered by it.

I must be one of the only people not applauding his performance. It was nothing short of shocking, yes he was brave but what the hell does that win you?

You cant just blame it on performance, its everything - the preperation (weight/tactics) aswell as the performance on the night. Attrocious all round.

Williams made Klitschko look like a 6'7 Muhammad Ali he was that static!

He was obviously fit, but he needs to shift serious weight and if he cant be bothered to be disciplined and do that then he's in the wrong sport. If he could get down to 240-245 for his next fight I'll be most impressed and he'll be better for it.

007 wrote:I must be one of the only people not applauding his performance. It was nothing short of shocking, yes he was brave but what the hell does that win you?

You cant just blame it on performance, its everything - the preperation (weight/tactics) aswell as the performance on the night. Attrocious all round.

Williams made Klitschko look like a 6'7 Muhammad Ali he was that static!

He was obviously fit, but he needs to shift serious weight and if he cant be bothered to be disciplined and do that then he's in the wrong sport. If he could get down to 240-245 for his next fight I'll be most impressed and he'll be better for it.

No, 007 I completely agree with you. For all his bravery this emoticon fits my thoughts on Williams' performance

Sorry to say that in the face of such bravery, but I do believe at he fought right and prepared with a better gameplan he might not have needed to have been so brave.

I don't know what his what his weight was vs Meehan but for me his best performances have been when he is around the 230-240. The Julius Francis revenge job, the Keith Long performance. These were his best efforts.

He got criticised for his performance vs Long, I cannot see why - look how many punches he throws, the bounced off Long, but was that night where I actually thought "Tua, Rahman, Klitchsko/s, Ruiz, etc cannot fight like this, they cannot throw this many punches in a round for the duration of the 12 rounds". He was speedy and very, very fit - although did look a little vulnerable at the lower weight.

Even against Tyson, he was slow in comparison to the 38 year old Mike. Mike was slipping shots early on like it was 1988 all over again. Perhaps Mike had improved, or perhaps Danny's hand speed made Tyson slip the shots easy. Danny looked slow handed in the opening 2 rounds and he is not when he is lighter.

I still believe that a 230-240 Danny Williams could win a world title and may even beat Klitchsko, but Danny of much more than that is domestic class at best (who got a bit lucky vs Mike).

007 wrote:McDonnell is dellusional I think. He says if it wasnt for the torrid 1st round Williams would have won. Also says the thing he saw in Klitschko is he can only move to his left and if you get him moving the other way he's like a duck out of water. All the gym work was forcing sparring partners the other way and they couldnt handle it. Well thats sparring partners not Klitschko.

He also says the weight was not an issue, is he the only one who cant see that Williams was a sitting duck at that weight? He says "With Danny, he doesn't eat very much (yeah right) and has a low body fat content (ahem) so to get any lighter he'd really need to diet hard." I'm sorry but that is utter bull, Williams body was muscular but definitely soft in places and I fail to see how all that weight is any good for him.

He needs to lose at least a stone and preferably more he's horrible at that weight.

Fact is while McDonnell is a great fitness coach a good cornerman/tactician he is clearly not.

I'm sorry 007, but your above post indicates to me that McDonnell isn't a good fitness coach. I have a degree in Sport Science and to be a good fitness coach you need to know everything, and clearly the body fat content of Williams was miscalculated (were the callipers working!). Williams has a surprisingly good body (god thats sounds gay) for someone weighing in a 6 foot 2 and 19 stone, but clearly has fair amout of flesh that can be worked off. Danny will always been heavy for his height, but 19 stone? Jim knows that Danny he fought over two stone light than this (and at an age where he has fully developed) - so is he a good fitness coach? I'd need to see him in action before passing judgement.

Plan shcman. Danny Williams could come with 101 different plans and Vitali Klitschko would beat the fornicate out of him.

They are playing different games at different levels.

Well if Danny did lose 30 pounds he would definately feel the difference. Don't know though had a look at the Tyson fight and he looked quick there and was only 5 pounds lighter though. Sounds like they were giving us a lot of excuse saying he needs to be lighter, then fight like prime Tyson and then saying if he was lighter he'd be destroyed by Klitschko.

Maybe Mc Donnell isn't that good after all he was a Featherweight not a Heavyweight maybe an ex Heavyweight would be a good coach for Danny to tell him that weight was too much.

I have a love affair with my fridge yet im only between 203 and 207 pounds.

danny against keith long was very fast and very busy and to keep throwing shots after that amazing 1st round was incredible.

However he was badly hurt against the non puncher Long in the 3rd round and could even have been stopped.

I think that fight should tell you that even in top mental and physical shape, Danny would not have been up to the highest challenge.

stujones wrote:

007 wrote:McDonnell is dellusional I think. He says if it wasnt for the torrid 1st round Williams would have won. Also says the thing he saw in Klitschko is he can only move to his left and if you get him moving the other way he's like a duck out of water. All the gym work was forcing sparring partners the other way and they couldnt handle it. Well thats sparring partners not Klitschko.

He also says the weight was not an issue, is he the only one who cant see that Williams was a sitting duck at that weight? He says "With Danny, he doesn't eat very much (yeah right) and has a low body fat content (ahem) so to get any lighter he'd really need to diet hard." I'm sorry but that is utter bull, Williams body was muscular but definitely soft in places and I fail to see how all that weight is any good for him.

He needs to lose at least a stone and preferably more he's horrible at that weight.

Fact is while McDonnell is a great fitness coach a good cornerman/tactician he is clearly not.

I'm sorry 007, but your above post indicates to me that McDonnell isn't a good fitness coach. I have a degree in Sport Science and to be a good fitness coach you need to know everything, and clearly the body fat content of Williams was miscalculated (were the callipers working!). Williams has a surprisingly good body (god thats sounds gay) for someone weighing in a 6 foot 2 and 19 stone, but clearly has fair amout of flesh that can be worked off. Danny will always been heavy for his height, but 19 stone? Jim knows that Danny he fought over two stone light than this (and at an age where he has fully developed) - so is he a good fitness coach? I'd need to see him in action before passing judgement.

Perhaps not then. What I was attempting to say is he gets his guys into good shape stamina wise thats not in question. Takaloo has been as fit as a fiddle for a long time since hooking up with McDonnell.

There's no way on earth Williams body fat count was low for the Klitschko fight there was plenty of meat on him that could have been worked off. Because Williams is a heavyweight they obviously put no emphasis on getting the weight off and train for stamina/fitness but thats a big mistake if you ask me he looked like a barrel on legs against Klitschko and fought like one.

Max Molyneux wrote:Well if Danny did lose 30 pounds he would definately feel the difference. Don't know though had a look at the Tyson fight and he looked quick there and was only 5 pounds lighter though. Sounds like they were giving us a lot of excuse saying he needs to be lighter, then fight like prime Tyson and then saying if he was lighter he'd be destroyed by Klitschko.

Maybe Mc Donnell isn't that good after all he was a Featherweight not a Heavyweight maybe an ex Heavyweight would be a good coach for Danny to tell him that weight was too much.

I have a love affair with my fridge yet im only between 203 and 207 pounds.

Williams looked quick against Tyson as Tyson had blown his load and was standing in front of him doing next to nothing - just as Williams was plodding in front of Klitschko doing nothing - he made Klitschko look pretty quick which he is certainly not.

007 wrote:Looking fluid against Sprott is an altogether different proposition to doing it against world class fighters. He should be a max of 240, the guy is 6'1 for crying out loud. Weighing in at 270 was a disgrace and took away even his slim chance of winning. At 270 I dont think he'd beat Skelton let alone the top guys.

the thing is, Sprott is very quick, and yet Danny was dancing rings around him in that fight, and was slipping almost all of his shots.

against klitchsko is was like he was mesmerised, he just stood right in front of him

the only way to beat Vitali is to keep him turning and to keep pecking away at him, as Manny steward noted, when he is under fire, Vitali doesn't fire back, he retreats.

There were a couple of times when Danny got Vitali to the ropes and landed some good body shots, that the big Ukrainian looked quite disorganised, but at that weight Danny's handspeed just wasn't there.

I think it was as much mental as physical, I think danny froze up and couldn't let his hands go and was waiting for his opponent to punch first, which against Vitali is a disastrous tactic, Danny has a habit of doing that in fights, standing and waiting for openings.

Even around 250-255 Danny would surely be in better physical shape, he would be more flexible and lighter on his feet, no matter how physically fit you are, carrying around 25 lbs or more of excess blubber is going to slow you down and make you less agile. I have no doubt that Danny was fit for that fight, no way on god's earth could he have kept getting up otherwise, but he wasn't in the right kind of shape for facing a big static heavyweight like vitali.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

007 wrote:Looking fluid against Sprott is an altogether different proposition to doing it against world class fighters. He should be a max of 240, the guy is 6'1 for crying out loud. Weighing in at 270 was a disgrace and took away even his slim chance of winning. At 270 I dont think he'd beat Skelton let alone the top guys.

the thing is, Sprott is very quick, and yet Danny was dancing rings around him in that fight, and was slipping almost all of his shots.

against klitchsko is was like he was mesmerised, he just stood right in front of him

the only way to beat Vitali is to keep him turning and to keep pecking away at him, as Manny steward noted, when he is under fire, Vitali doesn't fire back, he retreats.

There were a couple of times when Danny got Vitali to the ropes and landed some good body shots, that the big Ukrainian looked quite disorganised, but at that weight Danny's handspeed just wasn't there.

I think it was as much mental as physical, I think danny froze up and couldn't let his hands go and was waiting for his opponent to punch first, which against Vitali is a disastrous tactic, Danny has a habit of doing that in fights, standing and waiting for openings.

Even around 250-255 Danny would surely be in better physical shape, he would be more flexible and lighter on his feet, no matter how physically fit you are, carrying around 25 lbs or more of excess blubber is going to slow you down and make you less agile. I have no doubt that Danny was fit for that fight, no way on god's earth could he have kept getting up otherwise, but he wasn't in the right kind of shape for facing a big static heavyweight like vitali.

I agree. The 'new' Williams reverted to type as soon as he got hit.

Anyone who thinks he can win a world title is dellusional, I think all the champs bar Brewster would beat him pretty easily. I just dont think he's world class, people are rating him on the back of beating Tyson who in all honesty was shot to pieces and possibly injured.

Had a quick look at the IBO rankings (top 10) and to be honest how many of these does anyone think Williams could beat.

Byrd, V Klitschko, Ruiz, Sanders, Johnson, Rahman, Brewster, W Klitschko, Toney, McCline.

I think he'd have a chance against Brewster, Johnson or Sanders as none of those guys seems to be able to get in shape, other than that he could maybe let Wlad wear himself out beating the crap out of him like his brother did but I really wouldnt back Williams to beat him. The rest would beat Williams for sure in my mind. Even Ruiz who people lambast would knock him out, he's crude and ugly but very effective at what he does.

I'd add McCline to that list - not a particularly big puncher and does nothing particularly well. Williams should beat him.

Would also tip him to beat Wlad also, although that would be a 50:50 affair. If Wlad lands cleanly then we could have a repeat of the Vitali fight (cause Wlad can punch). However, he was very tentative vs Williamson and is severely lacking in confidence - also fighters now have a confidence when fighting him. That would be an interesting fight.

Fair enough but I think McCline would beat Williams, just too big.

I'm not quite sure why people have this overinflated opinion of Williams, loking back this is a guy who lost to Julius Francis, took a one sided drubbing for the european title, lost to Michael Sprott then got a shock win over an absolute shell of Tyson, then takes an absolute hammering in a title shot and now he's this world class operator? Not for me until he beats one of those mentioned above. Would he even beat someone like Maskaev?

007 wrote:Fair enough but I think McCline would beat Williams, just too big.

I'm not quite sure why people have this overinflated opinion of Williams, loking back this is a guy who lost to Julius Francis, took a one sided drubbing for the european title, lost to Michael Sprott then got a shock win over an absolute shell of Tyson, then takes an absolute hammering in a title shot and now he's this world class operator? Not for me until he beats one of those mentioned above. Would he even beat someone like Maskaev?

Thats a fair statement, Williams has got to prove he is world class for me also - the Tyson win didn't do that because Tyson is only a 3 round fighter these days. Tyson still has the honey punch to win a world title but SHOULD really get beaten by most even if the top twenty - just run, survive for 3 rounds and he is yours. Whilst I think Williams CAN beat some in that list it doesn't mean that Williams is world class as he hasn't proved it.

I don't believe that all in that list are world class, McCline and Johnson are not in my opinion - McCline is a fringe world class, Johnson isn't that. I would place Williams in a similar bracket as Johnson.

I think Williams cause wasn't helped by his corner panicking during the fight and the fact that they seem to only have had one fight plan!.
Also I think Mcdonnel made the mistake of underestimating Klitchenko... who is much better than he is given credit for. Had Danny been lighter he may well have been more mobile etc but would he have been able to take the shots he did at 270?.... ideally he should have come in at about 256-to260... still with the strength but a little lighter and sharper... but Dannys inability to throw punches was also as much mental as physical... he was ruined in the first minute of the fight.

Well I'm glad to hear they actualy had a fight plan, because I'm sure everyone was wondering...

I saw nothing in the Klitschko fight to suggest that Williams could beat any of those fighters listed above. Even Brewster would knock him out in my opinion. I was one of those who got excited after the Tyson win and thought Williams could do something at world level but now we see that was just a win over a washed up has-been. He was truly woeful against Vitali. One of the worst performances I've ever seen. I felt sick at the end of the 1st round, thats how gutted I was. I really gave him a chance against Klitschko but he was a class below the big man and was embarassing. It takes a bigger man to just walk away and admit you are out of your depth instead of standing there getting hit with every punch for 8 rounds.