BoxRec

Posted: **21 May 2020, 16:37**

Hagler hasn't got a win against an ATG Middleweight
Conor Benn can pick up world title
Mayweather vs Castillo 1 wasnt a robbery
Joshua vs Klitschko was stopped too early
Usyk vs Briedis wasnt that great to watch
Kell Brook had the talent to become one of the greatest fighters Britains produced
Pascal is Froch's best win

I'll try think of more

Posted: **21 May 2020, 16:46**

Jack Johnson is massively overrated

Dorticos-Gass wasn't that good as one guy could hardly land a clean punch (I thought Briedis-Usy was really good though)

I agree on Benny winning a title

Posted: **21 May 2020, 18:05**

David Haye could’ve achieved even more in his career and become one of the greatest British fighters.

Posted: **21 May 2020, 18:06**

Unpopular or stupid opinions?

Posted: **21 May 2020, 18:30**

milpool wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 18:05 David Haye could’ve achieved even more in his career and become one of the greatest British fighters.

He did pretty well IMO

Posted: **21 May 2020, 18:46**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 16:46 Jack Johnson is massively overrated

A good call. But this is explainable, as he carries a huge legacy of being the first ever black HW champ with a fact of having a quite long title reign.

A couple of mine:

Lennox Lewis is the best HW ever for the current moment.
Tyson Fury is on the route to become the best HW ever.

Posted: **21 May 2020, 19:19**

Mike Tyson doesn’t have a single elite level win on his resume and lost against every top fighter who was remotely close to their prime he met

Scoring in the UK is as bad as Germany 20 years ago

Anyone who has bought a Dillian Whyte PPV can never complain about any fight being PPV again

Josh Taylor has the best resume of any active UK fighter

Posted: **22 May 2020, 02:03**

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 18:30
milpool wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 18:05 David Haye could’ve achieved even more in his career and become one of the greatest British fighters.
He did pretty well IMO

He did, unified cruiser and WBA heavy champ is nothing to be sniffed at..but I’ve always felt that he could’ve done even more had it not been for injuries and general periods of inactivity. IMO he should have kicked on after the Chisora fight.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 02:27**

Mike Tyson never came back from adversity in any fight.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:09**

DrDuke wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 18:46
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 16:46 Jack Johnson is massively overrated
A good call. But this is explainable, as he carries a huge legacy of being the first ever black HW champ with a fact of having a quite long title reign.

A couple of mine:

Lennox Lewis is the best HW ever for the current moment.
Tyson Fury is on the route to become the best HW ever.

Johnson isn’t overrated. Look at the time He fought at. 6oz gloves, often...With a face Barely touched. He pioneered the open palm defence and also showed such mental fortitude fighting in areas that 99% wanted his blood. Then if you actually look at his resume, it’s incredible. Burns, ketchel, Langford, Mcvey 3 times etc

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:12**

Nah, he's hugely overrated. And I mean among those amazing wins you just mentioned two guys weighing in the 160s and one in the 150s on fight day, and another guy who was only a teenager when Johnson faced him. Imagine the HWs of today getting the same huge credit and often getting ranked as some top 5 hw great for beating welterweights

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:14**

Chavez isn't the default greatest Mexican.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:29**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 03:12 Nah, he's hugely overrated. And I mean among those amazing wins you just mentioned two guys weighing in the 160s and one in the 150s on fight day, and another guy who was only a teenager when Johnson faced him. Imagine the HWs of today getting the same huge credit and often getting ranked as some top 5 hw great for beating welterweights

Difficult to compare eras but imagine the heavyweights fighting month in month out with small gloves? And I agree they were lighter guys but... all time greats perhaps greatest of all time. Johnson himself wasn’t exactly a giant either in today’s standards

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:34**

Tyson wasn't a top 5 ATG heavyweight, even in his mythical 'prime'.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:39**

DazBoxingFan wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 03:29
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 03:12 Nah, he's hugely overrated. And I mean among those amazing wins you just mentioned two guys weighing in the 160s and one in the 150s on fight day, and another guy who was only a teenager when Johnson faced him. Imagine the HWs of today getting the same huge credit and often getting ranked as some top 5 hw great for beating welterweights
Difficult to compare eras but imagine the heavyweights fighting month in month out with small gloves? And I agree they were lighter guys but... all time greats perhaps greatest of all time. Johnson himself wasn’t exactly a giant either in today’s standards

You had a 6 foot 185ish pound guy beating up on 5'8ish 160ish pound guys, which today with weight cutting would be like a super middle vs a welter determining who gets atg heavyweight status. There's only so much credit I can give a guy compared to other HWs for that. I mean of course we would LOL if Fury or AJ or Wilder were scheduled vs a welter or jr welter, rather than using it to laud them as atgs hws. But what happens is Johnson gets held up way higher than all these guys and pretty much all but a few hws.

And then McVey was a teenager when JJ beat him, and Jeff had been retired 6 years.

Johnson just had a lot of weird stuff like this on his record that was particular to his era and that I don't think should really do much to create some massive HW reputation as a boxer compared to the other HW greats and almost greats. Obviously a larger than life character and a historical figure that transcends sport.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 03:47**

You're right, even past that he was an asshole. Obviously a ridiculous time for a black man but he was an infringement on black rights more than the image that's portrayed.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 04:13**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 03:39
DazBoxingFan wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 03:29

Difficult to compare eras but imagine the heavyweights fighting month in month out with small gloves? And I agree they were lighter guys but... all time greats perhaps greatest of all time. Johnson himself wasn’t exactly a giant either in today’s standards
You had a 6 foot 185ish pound guy beating up on 5'8ish 160ish pound guys, which today with weight cutting would be like a super middle vs a welter determining who gets atg heavyweight status. There's only so much credit I can give a guy compared to other HWs for that. I mean of course we would LOL if Fury or AJ or Wilder were scheduled vs a welter or jr welter, rather than using it to laud them as atgs hws. But what happens is Johnson gets held up way higher than all these guys and pretty much all but a few hws.

And then McVey was a teenager when JJ beat him, and Jeff had been retired 6 years.

Johnson just had a lot of weird stuff like this on his record that was particular to his era and that I don't think should really do much to create some massive HW reputation as a boxer compared to the other HW greats and almost greats. Obviously a larger than life character and a historical figure that transcends sport.

U make a lot of good points however still putting into perspective the outside pressures he was under and the quality of opposition we can agree to disagree. He beat some very solid opponents as a contender coming up, it was only until he became champion he somewhat cherry picked

Posted: **22 May 2020, 05:13**

handsofstone wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 16:37Mayweather vs Castillo 1 wasnt a robbery
Joshua vs Klitschko was stopped too early

I watched Mayweather Castillo a few years ago and had it for Mayweather by a point. I don't think Calzaghe Reid was a robbery either. In both cases, seems like a lot of people were influenced by the broadcaster's scorecards.

Agree Joshua/WK was an early stoppage, especially considering what had gone before. The scoring was also shite. Would still have given Joshua a decent chance of finishing Wlad had the fight continued tho.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 05:28**

fizzjambo wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 19:19 Mike Tyson doesn’t have a single elite level win on his resume and lost against every top fighter who was remotely close to their prime he met

Scoring in the UK is as bad as Germany 20 years ago

Anyone who has bought a Dillian Whyte PPV can never complain about any fight being PPV again

Josh Taylor has the best resume of any active UK fighter

Agree with those.

Don’t buy into the Calzaghe hype either. 8/9 years of defending his title against poor opposition. Didn’t fight for another belt in those 8/9 years then his fear of flying suddenly cleared up as RJJ and Hopkins were past their peak.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 06:18**

fizzjambo wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 19:19 Mike Tyson doesn’t have a single elite level win on his resume and lost against every top fighter who was remotely close to their prime he met

Scoring in the UK is as bad as Germany 20 years ago

Anyone who has bought a Dillian Whyte PPV can never complain about any fight being PPV again

Josh Taylor has the best resume of any active UK fighter

Yeah you are right. Mike was a great bully and finisher, if the opponent wasnt confident under the pressure he killed them very quickly but if someone stood their ground Tyson rapidly faded. He was not among the best but in my opinion the most fun to watch.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 06:22**

mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 02:27 Mike Tyson never came back from adversity in any fight.

How is this an unpopular opinion?

Posted: **22 May 2020, 06:35**

lefthook82 wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 06:22
mickey1975 wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 02:27 Mike Tyson never came back from adversity in any fight.
How is this an unpopular opinion?

That’s just a fact.

I think these aren’t all that unpopular. This is more like us fans pointing out popular misconceptions.

Here’s a real one:

Gervonta beats Loma if he gets his act together

Posted: **22 May 2020, 08:06**

Agree with the comments about Tyson. He came along at the right time and looked a million dollars against a lot of fighters who had bad drug habits. His run was all too brief in reality.

Posted: **22 May 2020, 09:54**

fizzjambo wrote: ↑21 May 2020, 19:19 Mike Tyson doesn’t have a single elite level win on his resume and lost against every top fighter who was remotely close to their prime he met

Michael Spinks

Posted: **22 May 2020, 10:05**

I think the first Lewis vs Holyfield was a fair result.

Always thought Larry Merchant lacked any real knowledge of boxing.

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