BoxRec

Some fighters look a million pounds vs average opposition, but then not so hot stepping up--this is prob the norm. But there are also some fighters who raise and drop their performances in the other way based on opposition levels. I think a common indicator of this is when guys look their best in their biggest fights/vs best opponents, but then no so hot vs the guys in between

Who are some of these guys past or present. Recent guys

Callum Smith
BJS
Starting to see this from Mall Charlo

Tyson Fury?

oogiebe wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 18:35Tyson Fury?

Jimmy Young in the mid 70s.

He looked the same against Joe King Roman and Jody Ballard as he did against Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Young, and Ali.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 18:41 Jimmy Young in the mid 70s.

He looked the same against Joe King Roman and Jody Ballard as he did against Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Young, and Ali.

That's the opposite of the thread. More like fights worse vs lesser opponents.

That fits guys who seemingly underperform vs average opponents but then put in good work vs higher end opponents. That's what I'm looking for

Guys who you see vs an average opponent thinking they'll lose to better opposition, but then when they do face better opposition they perform beyond what you'd think from just watching them vs the average guys

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 19:52 That fits guys who seemingly underperform vs average opponents but then put in good work vs higher end opponents. That's what I'm looking for

Guys who you see vs an average opponent thinking they'll lose to better opposition, but then when they do face better opposition they perform beyond what you'd think from just watching them vs the average guys

Maybe I misunderstood Tony's post.

Chisora

dookus wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 20:22Chisora

Another good one

Tyson Fury is the obvious answer. He was touted early doors as a kid. He didn't look like he would achieve full fruition after lacklustre performances in the pros. Now he is the King and I doubt there are many that will dethrone him as long as his head is right.

Calzaghe had a run of uninspiring opposition, which he matched with his own uninspiring performances.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 21:27 Calzaghe had a run of uninspiring opposition, which he matched with his own uninspiring performances.

That's a fair shout. No real bells and whistles and controversy. Bad hands adapted and got on with it. Damn we may admire him more and more.

Chris Eubank could look ordinary against lower level

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 01:51 Chris Eubank could look ordinary against lower level

Lennox Lewis was a bit of a plodder in his early career.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 18:33 Some fighters look a million pounds vs average opposition, but then not so hot stepping up--this is prob the norm. But there are also some fighters who raise and drop their performances in the other way based on opposition levels. I think a common indicator of this is when guys look their best in their biggest fights/vs best opponents, but then no so hot vs the guys in between

Who are some of these guys past or present. Recent guys

Callum Smith
BJS
Starting to see this from Mall Charlo

Why would you put Smith in there?

I have seen him be very unimpressive several times in vs guys he was supposed to run over....a midget Argentinian, Holkzen, Blackledge, Ryder. None of these were supposed to be big fights for him and he fought like it. Very lackadaisical and complacent.

But in the well hyped fight with Fielding (a guy who beat Ryder), going for the EBU title (first round KO over a durable guy who'd easily gone 12 vs Degale), in the WBSS final vs the 2nd best fighter in the tournament (Groves)....he delivered.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 May 2020, 18:33 Some fighters look a million pounds vs average opposition, but then not so hot stepping up--this is prob the norm. But there are also some fighters who raise and drop their performances in the other way based on opposition levels. I think a common indicator of this is when guys look their best in their biggest fights/vs best opponents, but then no so hot vs the guys in between

Who are some of these guys past or present. Recent guys

Callum Smith
BJS
Starting to see this from Mall Charlo

Smith was blasting everyone out on the way up.

I don't mean that they struggled vs every lowly opponent or that you can't see any impressive performances except vs their best opponents. More as a general trend that usually starts once they've been established--perhaps this is when, based on past wins, they start to have a sense of overconfidence that leads to them overlooking guys they dont regard as highly. Perhaps they think they are beyond that now and can't be arsed for it.

Since really emerging as a notable fighter in the division I've seen it regularly with Smith. The type of thing where he blasts out the durable Euro champ in like 2 minutes, then his next fight is as lacklustre and 'doesn't seem to give a f@ck' as it comes over 6 rounds vs a tiny Argie journeyman KO'd in 5 by Seb Heiland. Where he wins meh decisions vs Skog and Holkzen, but then KO's a streaking Groves in the WBSS finals. When he blasts out Fielding in 1 in a hyped domestic unbeatens showdown, but then has hell in what was supposed to be a routine win vs a guy Fielding beat and perhaps did just as well against. Like when in a lightly matched stay busy fight vs chinny mediocre Vadine Boisse, KO'd by anyone else half decent, he plods to a decision, etcc, etc

I think most fighters need to be up for a fight to get the best out of them. Muhammad Ali was in some dull fights against lesser opposition. Tyson Fury has looked awful in some fights too but their opposition sometimes fight harder as they have the motivation to win. That’s why there are upsets and close fights when on paper they look easy. Froch has recently spoke about fighting Chavez Jr after Groves and he just couldn’t get himself up for it and retired but I bet if Calzaghe wanted a fight it would have been a different story. Desire and motivation raise you to a new level.

I think Ryder is very understimated. He's very good. He certainly gave BJS the toughest fight of his life. I think people who expected Smith to destroy him, both overestimated Smith and understimated Ryder.

Rudi Lubbers arguably did better against Ali than Foreman, for whatever that's worth.

As someone as already said this fits Chris Eubank. He only ever did enough d only seemed to out his foot on the gas when he absolutely had to.

Verdi wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 09:20 I think Ryder is very understimated. He's very good. He certainly gave BJS the toughest fight of his life. I think people who expected Smith to destroy him, both overestimated Smith and understimated Ryder.

Cal underestimated him too, maybe just looked at him as the guy who lost to Rocky

Roco wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 15:08 As someone as already said this fits Chris Eubank. He only ever did enough d only seemed to out his foot on the gas when he absolutely had to.

Good call, yes he struggled with Sherry, Close and Schommer, a case of the underdog having a lot to win and the favourite not taking them too serious.