BoxRec

https://www.BS.com/andre-ward- ... ay--149439

This will really grate on Froch won't it?! Have to say I do agree with Ward though. He would certainly have lost the Taylor fight but for Taylor having faded, arguably lost the Dirrell fight and the Groves 1 stoppage was very controversial. Also perhaps his wins over Bute and a faded Kessler are overrated. Pascal and Abraham are his best wins in my view.

Thoughts?

Ward also thinks Usyk (aka nothing special, Bellew beats him), GGG, and Loma are overrated ...does he have something for whitebois? lol jkjk

But he's right in that at least Froch got the most of himself, more than I ever thought he would.

Don't buy discrediting on the Taylor fight though tbh , part of Froch's game is to be able to fight hard till the end, that type of finish can't be seperated from his strengths and attributed to questionable judges/refs/ etc

Yeah but surely the plan wasn't to wait until the final 20 seconds of the fight whilst being a mile behind on the cards to win it. It was an amazing finish but he got lucky in that one, very lucky.

Nah, he wore Taylor out , that's his game

He wasn't a mile down either, if it had gone the distance it would've been a close split even with just 1 kd (Froch could've scored more)

Froch was world class but a level below Ward, Calzaghe and a peak Kessler in my view.

I think him and Kess are pretty much bang on even for quality. Agree that Joe and Ward were better.

SteveDow wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:28 https://www.BS.com/andre-ward-lot-froch ... ay--149439

This will really grate on Froch won't it?! Have to say I do agree with Ward though. He would certainly have lost the Taylor fight but for Taylor having faded, arguably lost the Dirrell fight and the Groves 1 stoppage was very controversial. Also perhaps his wins over Bute and a faded Kessler are overrated. Pascal and Abraham are his best wins in my view.

Thoughts?

He didn't lose to Taylor though, you could use that argument about any fighter who was behind on the scorecards. Froch's resume is pretty strong, plenty think Kovalev beat Ward too. Froch's run of opposition was tough, Pascal (unbeaten), Taylor (in USA), Dirrell (unbeaten), Kessler (in Denmark), Abraham (in Finland), Johnson (in USA), Ward (unbeaten and in USA), Bute (unbeaten), Mack (only easy one), Kessler and Groves (unbeaten) and then Groves again.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:40 He wasn't a mile down either, if it had gone the distance it would've been a close split even with just 1 kd (Froch could've scored more)

He was 4 points down on 2 of the scorecards going into the final round so needed a KO.

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:43

SteveDow wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:28 https://www.BS.com/andre-ward-lot-froch ... ay--149439

This will really grate on Froch won't it?! Have to say I do agree with Ward though. He would certainly have lost the Taylor fight but for Taylor having faded, arguably lost the Dirrell fight and the Groves 1 stoppage was very controversial. Also perhaps his wins over Bute and a faded Kessler are overrated. Pascal and Abraham are his best wins in my view.

Thoughts?

He didn't lose to Taylor though, you could use that argument about any fighter who was behind on the scorecards. Froch's resume is pretty strong, plenty think Kovalev beat Ward too. Froch's run of opposition was tough, Pascal (unbeaten), Taylor (in USA), Dirrell (unbeaten), Kessler (in Denmark), Abraham (in Finland), Johnson (in USA), Ward (unbeaten and in USA), Bute (unbeaten), Mack (only easy one), Kessler and Groves (unbeaten) and then Groves again.

I'm not criticising his opponents but what Ward says is about right in my view. World class but nowhere near elite level.

SteveDow wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:43

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:40 He wasn't a mile down either, if it had gone the distance it would've been a close split even with just 1 kd (Froch could've scored more)

He was 4 points down on 2 of the scorecards going into the final round so needed a KO.

Which he got by gradually wearing Taylor down, not landing 1 money shot out of no where. Worst he would've done would've been a split decision loss.

Froch is easy to knock because he had such an ugly, visually unimpressive style, but he got results pretty much as good as anyone did during his time. Depends what you mean by elite, sure he wasn't a Ward or Floyd, etc, but he would've fit easily into the lower end of a p4p list at his peak

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:48 Froch is easy to knock because he had such an ugly, visually unimpressive style, but he got results pretty much as good as anyone did during his time. Depends what you mean by elite, sure he wasn't a Ward or Floyd, etc, but he would've fit easily into the lower end of a p4p list at his peak

No way was he ever top 10 lb for lb. By elite he was never the best in his division.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:45

SteveDow wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:43

He was 4 points down on 2 of the scorecards going into the final round so needed a KO.

Which he got by gradually wearing Taylor down, not landing 1 money shot out of no where. Worst he would've done would've been a split decision loss.

Sorry I don't understand these arguments, he knocked Taylor out, Taylor was a better boxer but he still lost. He was stopped in the last round by Abraham too, that his failing not Froch's.

I think he easily had a case, he was racking up good win after good win in a way very few others were.

So what if he wasn't clear 1, you could potentially have the number 10 in a division being the number 10 p4p. Ward was a f@cking awesome fighter, so not being as good as him doesn't mean you're still not in one of the highest tiers

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:51

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:45

Which he got by gradually wearing Taylor down, not landing 1 money shot out of no where. Worst he would've done would've been a split decision loss.

Sorry I don't understand these arguments, he knocked Taylor out, Taylor was a better boxer but he still lost. He was stopped in the last round by Abraham too, that his failing not Froch's.

Obviously

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:51

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:45

Which he got by gradually wearing Taylor down, not landing 1 money shot out of no where. Worst he would've done would've been a split decision loss.

Sorry I don't understand these arguments, he knocked Taylor out, Taylor was a better boxer but he still lost. He was stopped in the last round by Abraham too, that his failing not Froch's.

Hence Ward saying he was an overachiever is correct.

It depends how you look at it. A lot of time when people talk about overachievers they discount qualities like toughness, chin, stamina, desire etc....as if these somehow aren't legit attributes, and that fighters who have success because of them have somehow have gone way beyond their true level when these qualities are part of them just as much as speed was part of roy jones or defense was of floyd

SteveDow wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:56

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 05:51

Sorry I don't understand these arguments, he knocked Taylor out, Taylor was a better boxer but he still lost. He was stopped in the last round by Abraham too, that his failing not Froch's.

Hence Ward saying he was an overachiever is correct.

Overachiever isn't a negative phrase to me, he done better than people expected. Froch achieved more than I expected him to as well.

Pascal still a world top fighter 12 years after tongue in cheek took his 0

It doesn't matter if Ward is right or wrong,the main thing is it will piss off big beak

Absolutely battered Mack around the ring

Fisted him hard

I think he rung every ounce out of his ability and his career, so he should take that as a compliment.

Most of the breaks he got, he made himself and he got some luck here and there, but who at the top doesn't?

Looking back at his record, at least six of his opponents were better boxers than him, in my opinion and only one of them actually beat him (I think he was a better boxer than Kessler).

his response should be this:


and the next time he sees Ward:

Yeah, same. I’m not going to knock Froch. He proved better than I‘d thought he was, so fair play to him.