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Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 14 Jun 2020, 14:48
by Ghost Town Ghost
I have read the opinion that Jersey Joe was not even that hurt by the punch that KO'd him. It seems to me he could have tried to rise earlier to beat the count from what I see, have to agree with that.
BUT he was hurt bad, his legs were really stiff when he got up. I am tired of the amateur psychos saying he remembered that KO in the first fight and didn't want to go on, stfu with that.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 14 Jun 2020, 18:12
by Ambling Alp II
I normally am skeptical when people claim fix. I think it's usually on the level when people are claiming fix. (I mean fix by the fighters. Refs and judges are more suspicious)
However, this fight always bugged me.
1. Look at what happened before the knockdown. Walcott just wasn't doing hardly anything at all.
2. The punch that knocked him didn't seem to be enough to hurt him that badly.
3. He looks like he is about get up, but never does.
4. Watch what happens right after the 10-count. Walcott is calm. Then later, all of a sudden he starts to go crazy and complain about the count; as if he suddenly remembered he was supposed to do that.
None of of these things by themselves is overly suspicious. However, it put them all together and it does look suspicious.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 14 Jun 2020, 18:27
by gilgamesh
Might've been a case of just knowing he couldn't give a better effort than he gave the 1st time, and rather than taking a sh*t load of punishment ultimately to lose again he just decided to pack it in early with relatively little pain.
Who's to say?
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 14 Jun 2020, 20:10
by elmersalsa
No matter what, the great Jersey Joe Walcott already was spent and shot. He had too many brutal fights against great opposition. He was not going to beat the great Rocky Marciano that night. He was also 39 years old. It was time to retire. And his career ended like it should. There were no more high mountains to climb. End of story.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 14 Jun 2020, 22:05
by bwu
There was a lot to admire about Walcott. His story could've been made into a movie like "Cinderella Man." But there's another side to that story.
He was managed by Felix Bocchicchio, which is, shall we say, uncomfortable. His handling of Ali-Liston II was, to be polite, questionable. Much lesser known, but perhaps worst of all, was his alleged conduct as head of the NJ Athletic Commission. There's an article that's still available on the internet called "Jersey Joe: Inspiration...Who Could be Bought." In it, Wallace Matthews describes Walcott being caught on tape taking bribes.
I think of those things when I watch this fight. Just an observation.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 15 Jun 2020, 05:58
by Onamastus
Regarding rising earlier, in that era and for decades after it was common for a fighter to take a nine count. The referees, as we know, weren't so keen to wave the fight off as they are now. Walcott boxes correctly. He looks alert defensively. He doesn't act like a fighter who knows he has to lose in one; quite the reverse. The punch that flattens him comes out of nowhere. He sits there taking the standard nine to buy recovery time but appears to rise a split second too late. Other refs might have been more lenient with him. He's also 39 and just had his brains clobbered--that could have clouded his judgment.
Nothing remotely suspicious from my view.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 15 Jun 2020, 19:29
by sweetsci
bwu wrote: ↑14 Jun 2020, 22:05
There was a lot to admire about Walcott. His story could've been made into a movie like "Cinderella Man." But there's another side to that story.
He was managed by Felix Bocchicchio, which is, shall we say, uncomfortable. His handling of Ali-Liston II was, to be polite, questionable. Much lesser known, but perhaps worst of all, was his alleged conduct as head of the NJ Athletic Commission. There's an article that's still available on the internet called "Jersey Joe: Inspiration...Who Could be Bought." In it, Wallace Matthews describes Walcott being caught on tape taking bribes.
I think of those things when I watch this fight. Just an observation.
I'd read somewhere before that Walcott engaged in questionable behavior while head of the NJ Athletic Commission. Maybe in "The Black Lights"? I don't remember. Do you have a link for this article? I just did a very quick Google search and came up empty, but I didn't try that hard.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 16 Jun 2020, 08:42
by dookus
Red Smith, reporting from ringside and who had been very complimentary towards Walcott previously, was absolutely convinced he could have got up.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 16 Jun 2020, 09:44
by Tony1244
gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jun 2020, 18:27
Might've been a case of just knowing he couldn't give a better effort than he gave the 1st time, and rather than taking a sh*t load of punishment ultimately to lose again he just decided to pack it in early with relatively little pain.
Who's to say?
I think you're to say.
Agree. That's what happened.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 16 Jun 2020, 10:42
by Ambling Alp II
That is my best guess as well. The only other reason why he would not try hard was that he was paid off to take a dive early.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 16 Jun 2020, 21:59
by bwu
sweetsci wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 19:29
bwu wrote: ↑14 Jun 2020, 22:05
There was a lot to admire about Walcott. His story could've been made into a movie like "Cinderella Man." But there's another side to that story.
He was managed by Felix Bocchicchio, which is, shall we say, uncomfortable. His handling of Ali-Liston II was, to be polite, questionable. Much lesser known, but perhaps worst of all, was his alleged conduct as head of the NJ Athletic Commission. There's an article that's still available on the internet called "Jersey Joe: Inspiration...Who Could be Bought." In it, Wallace Matthews describes Walcott being caught on tape taking bribes.
I think of those things when I watch this fight. Just an observation.
I'd read somewhere before that Walcott engaged in questionable behavior while head of the NJ Athletic Commission. Maybe in "The Black Lights"? I don't remember. Do you have a link for this article? I just did a very quick Google search and came up empty, but I didn't try that hard.
Try
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xp ... story.html
If that doesn't work, Google "Wallace Matthews Walcott" and it should be one of the first two articles that pop up.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 16 Jun 2020, 22:52
by Ghost Town Ghost
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jun 2020, 18:12
I normally am skeptical when people claim fix. I think it's usually on the level when people are claiming fix. (I mean fix by the fighters. Refs and judges are more suspicious)
However, this fight always bugged me.
1. Look at what happened before the knockdown. Walcott just wasn't doing hardly anything at all.
2. The punch that knocked him didn't seem to be enough to hurt him that badly.
3. He looks like he is about get up, but never does.
4. Watch what happens right after the 10-count. Walcott is calm. Then later, all of a sudden he starts to go crazy and complain about the count; as if he suddenly remembered he was supposed to do that.
None of of these things by themselves is overly suspicious. However, it put them all together and it does look suspicious.
Agreed, it sure does add up! I think he was badly hurt though - don't know if it's possible to fake getting your legs stiffened like that
gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jun 2020, 18:27
Might've been a case of just knowing he couldn't give a better effort than he gave the 1st time, and rather than taking a sh*t load of punishment ultimately to lose again he just decided to pack it in early with relatively little pain.
Who's to say?
Yeah this is the most likely situation to me, I see it as Walcott knowing he was badly hurt and was about to get KO'd, but could've gotten up earlier.
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 11:44
by sweetsci
bwu wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 21:59
sweetsci wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 19:29
I'd read somewhere before that Walcott engaged in questionable behavior while head of the NJ Athletic Commission. Maybe in "The Black Lights"? I don't remember. Do you have a link for this article? I just did a very quick Google search and came up empty, but I didn't try that hard.
Try
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xp ... story.html
If that doesn't work, Google "Wallace Matthews Walcott" and it should be one of the first two articles that pop up.
Thanks!
Re: Marciano VS Walcott 2: Was Joe Faking?
Posted: 25 Jun 2020, 14:43
by Cap
Walcott was past it when he fought Marciano the first time, but Marciano finally managed to catch him with a good one, then another on the way down. In the second fight, Walcott played it smart took a dive. The mob controlled a lot of boxing in those days and they loved Rocco Marchegiano a fellow goombah.
'nuff said.