BoxRec

I was watching the K1 on late night Channel 5 (untill I fell asleep) and to my amazement, one of the UK "stars" of the K1 circuit is Gordon Minors. He had an brilliant record (something like 5 defeats in 40 contest) and he was one of the favourites to win this tournament (not sure how he got on, because I did fall asleep). He got to the final of this very tournament last year.

I find it quite weird, how for one sport the guy was a little bit of an icon (had a big reception from a fairly large crowd). Yet, I remember him as a boxer and he wasn't the best and didn't have a following.

I do find it odd that someone who has been exposed (on TV) in one combat sport, can then re-invent himself in another. I know Pele Reid has been beaten a fair few times in K1 after his loses in boxing. Surely the fact that you've seen a fighter like Minors floored in the boxing ring will give the K1 opponent alot of hope.

Anyway, yesterday's show reiterates my view that K1 fighters are simply jack of all trades, masters of none.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=018799

It must have been a small local tournament since its not mentioned on the official K-1 schedule/result page.

stujones wrote:

Anyway, yesterday's show reiterates my view that K1 fighters are simply jack of all trades, masters of none.

The style of fighting I once saw on eurosport was very very effective and the bloke demonstrating it was certainly a master of it.

It was similar to K1 and had alot of their top fighters in it.
This style they were aloud to wrestle and hit and kick on the floor.

It wasn`t that crappy American one they show on Bravo but this was real brutal stuff, Bob Sap got demolished by a fella half his size..the fella kicked him to bits once he got him on the floor.
The fella had certainly mastered this discipline,it was as close to fighting on the streets as could be legal..very brutal.

Well Five were calling it K1 and the logo was K1 in the Union Jack colouring. However, there wasn't much wrestling involved with this one - it seem more like straight kick boxing.

stujones wrote:Well Five were calling it K1 and the logo was K1 in the Union Jack colouring. However, there wasn't much wrestling involved with this one - it seem more like straight kick boxing.

Stu stick to commenting on boxing as your levels of ignorance are embarrasing as concerns kickboxing/mauy thai/K1

Miners was a kickboxer both before and after he boxed pro. He didn't make the best boxer but is better as a kickboxer - just like Pele didnt suit the leg kick rules of K1 but yet was masterful as a continuous fighter.

Your comment of 'jack of all trades' is unfair and stems from a lack of knowledge and appreciation of the differences between the fighting systems.

Sot Chitlada was known as the Asian Muhammed Ali, based on his silky skills cominbinations and movement, yet he came from Mauy Thai.

Hughie Forde (probably before your time) was a skillful and good quality champion, yet came from the ECKA full contact school.

Roy Rutherford won the ABAs in a then record few contests, yet also learned his fighting skills thru the ECKA sylabus.

In the USA add Troy Dorsey to this list - just about every Thai world champion comes from this sloppy school of learning yet they dont do too bad.

As regards K1 - the K1 rules are a combination of Mauy Thai and kickboxing - there is no ground work ect involved in K1 rules matches. K1 as an promoter/organisation have hosted several mixed martial arts contest on their cards, and this is the route of your confusion.

Stick to talking about amateur boxing in wales etc and leave the comments about kickboxing to those who know a little better!

Please note plenty of good class boxers - Andy Halder just sprang to mind - started in kickboxing but changed over to western boxing in persuit of $$$/recognition - both of which are lacking in the kickboxing world.

Vitali Klit, sam soliman, paul briggs to name some more..... Matt Skelton of course....

Incidently Gary Turner is the top K1 boy in Britain right now....... he won last year although is decision over pro boxer and MMA fighter James Zikic was very controversial.

From a pure boxing point of view you can watch the K1 guys and say there hands are that good.... but of course they arent going to have hands as good as boxers as they spend half the time working on kicks.

Its like football and rugby..... you cannot compare them

Terrible Terry,

Please note I have plenty of respect for Thai boxers from Thailand, they are absolutely hard a nails. I saw a documentary on this American thai boxer (a bit of a star in the states) and he went to Thailand to take on the best. He got his arse handed to him, in the end his team had to admit that he would never be good enough to compete with them because of their background (the thai's are sparring hard from a cradle).

I have the utmost respect for them, they would probably kick the shit into most proffesional boxers and its not surprising what you say about the heritage of these Thai world boxing champions. Doesn't surprise me one bit, and I'm sure it will happen in the future.

My first post was concerning K1 boxers in the UK, and whilst you obviously have a large interest in it (dare I say, compete in it - judging by the reaction to my post). I have to say, as a novice to the K1, I have been dissapointed with the standard (and I have seen a fair few Eurosport shows of them in the UK). Although, I haven't seen many from the lower weights.

I don't know if you saw the Minor's bout last night, but the conditioning of the opponent was awful - he looked like he was having an asthma attack from the second round, gulping he was. Sure you can say K1 is physically more demanding than Boxing (which I am sure it is), but there was no excuse for that gut that he had.

I've seen Pele get flattened a few times in events since I knew he was chinny (since his boxing). I don't know, if he was KO'D much during his "first" career (before the boxing). I saw one fight and he was hammering one short guy, untill the final round when the opponent decide to fight him - primarly using his hands and he KO'd Reid. Does this happen alot in K1 (i.e. fighters seeing flaws through watchning their opponent box and utilising them). I was hoping to see Minor's opponent try to box him more.

I'm sorry if my initial post offended, but it was supposed to cause a discussion. You mentioned that I am ignorant towards my statement concerning "jack of all trades", but I was wandering whether K1 fans are similarly ignorant about boxing. I noted that the attendance was pretty high for the Minor's bout and alot where there to watch Minor's - why don't they follow him when he is boxing?

Funny you should mention Welsh Amateur boxing, you may have heard of Wayne O Sullivan - he used to (not sure if he still is) be a European Kick boxing champion and has recently gone on to represent Wales in boxing, but I've seen him in the ring boxing and seen him on the bag (kickboxing) and sorry, not convinced that he is particularly brilliant at either.

You made some cracking example, especially about the Thai's - perhaps its just with the bigger men then? Because, I would think Danny Williams' would beat Minor's at either discipling.

I think this is what I saw.

http://spam.tv/K1-Britain-Resul ... 2-2004.htm

Minor's was suffering from some severe looking injuries and Shepard was his opponent (the one who resembled McDermott). He got to the final which did surprise me.

knockout wrote:Vitali Klit, sam soliman, paul briggs to name some more..... Matt Skelton of course....

Nigel Benn, 'Tex' Cobb and a load of Thais....

Stu, I think you have to judge these things in context. K1 is a sport in its infancy and so will take time to develop, much in the same way that boxing in the 1800s bears no resemblance to the modern game.
I do, however, think that a lot of boxing fans are blinkered as to the effectiveness of different combat systems, particularly if you're judging in the context of a street fight.

Deserter wrote:Stu, I think you have to judge these things in context. K1 is a sport in its infancy and so will take time to develop, much in the same way that boxing in the 1800s bears no resemblance to the modern game.
I do, however, think that a lot of boxing fans are blinkered as to the effectiveness of different combat systems, particularly if you're judging in the context of a street fight.

No, No, No - Not blinked on the effectiveness of different combat systems in terms of street fight. I'm sure the UFC guys (especially) and the UK K1 Heavyweights would hammer the shit into Williams in street fight.

stujones wrote:

Deserter wrote:Stu, I think you have to judge these things in context. K1 is a sport in its infancy and so will take time to develop, much in the same way that boxing in the 1800s bears no resemblance to the modern game.
I do, however, think that a lot of boxing fans are blinkered as to the effectiveness of different combat systems, particularly if you're judging in the context of a street fight.

No, No, No - Not blinked on the effectiveness of different combat systems in terms of street fight. I'm sure the UFC guys (especially) and the UK K1 Heavyweights would hammer the shit into Williams in street fight.

I'm not implying you are individually, but we've all seen posters who claim that a boxer would always destroy a mixed martial artist in a street fight, which strikes me as somewhat naive.

No way are the fighters in k-1 as fit as professional boxers. They don't work as hard as boxers. They are obviously tough guys, because getting kneed in the ribs and kicked is very painful.

Matt Skelton said that he had to raise his level of fitness considerably when he entered professional boxing.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:No way are the fighters in k-1 as fit as professional boxers. They don't work as hard as boxers. They are obviously tough guys, because getting kneed in the ribs and kicked is very painful.

Matt Skelton said that he had to raise his level of fitness considerably when he entered professional boxing.

different game.... requires different strengths... the K1 boys fight for 3-5 rounds and the emphasis is really on power so they ease off the road work and place more emphasis on body mass i imagine.....

in a similar way heavyweights come in heavier if they are looking to out strength their opponents.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:No way are the fighters in k-1 as fit as professional boxers. They don't work as hard as boxers. They are obviously tough guys, because getting kneed in the ribs and kicked is very painful.

Matt Skelton said that he had to raise his level of fitness considerably when he entered professional boxing.

James, while I agree with Knockout's last comments about it being a different game (much like you should train differently for Amateur and proffesional boxing), you do also raise a good point. As K1 is a relatively new discipling (well, new to TV) due you think they should be a little bit more stringent in their licencing, not saying they are not strict on medical grounds (I am sure they are equal to boxing), just look at some of the "conditioning" of some of these K1 components, John McDermmott is an exception in boxing, but it seems more common in K1. Look at how Frans "the gut" Botha has left himself go - not a good advert, especially as he is doing fairly well.

one thing for sure the licensing isnt the same Akebono had no striking experience at all but was fighting the top guys immediatly... same with Bob Sapp.... thankfully both did ok...

They have only 2 weight categories also which can lead to some huge size differences.......

Perversly, Sapp and Akebono faired ok and in the biggest weight mismatch this year the little Thai guy knocked out Big Mo despite giving away 50kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In boxing/K-1 news; Mercer was knocked out in 22 seconds by Bonjasky today in Seoul