Lennox Lewis vs Muhammad Ali
Posted: 29 Oct 2020, 11:51
Lennox by KO. Round 8. Too big, too strong, too fast. Makes Liston look like a little kid and won't punch himself out like Foreman.
Ken Norton knew how to box well enough to nullify Ali's movement, and use his size and strength effectively on him. If Norton could do that Lewis could do it better.scorpio83 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:41 Sorry, but sometimes size don't matter to Ali and Lewis never fought anyone like Ali, who never fought any great big man with the size of Lewis, but Ali was quicker with speed in his prime and boxed Lewis on the outside, but landing quicker jabs and combinations to take a closed 15 round decision.
Ali didn't fight anyone like Lewis either. Although Holyfield would be a terrible matchup for Ali, while Lewis didn't have any big problems in the fights against Evander. And people seem to forget, that it's not about the fact of size, but about how fighters can use the size, which is a skill. Primo Carnera was huge, especially for his times, but he didn't take advantages of it because of his abilities. Lewis could do it.scorpio83 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:41 Sorry, but sometimes size don't matter to Ali and Lewis never fought anyone like Ali, who never fought any great big man with the size of Lewis, but Ali was quicker with speed in his prime and boxed Lewis on the outside, but landing quicker jabs and combinations to take a closed 15 round decision.
Lewis is no Norton and he was not awkward as he was and Ali would out-box Lewis, who has the same reach as Sonny Liston, but Ali was a bit quicker.gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:46Ken Norton knew how to box well enough to nullify Ali's movement, and use his size and strength effectively on him. If Norton could do that Lewis could do it better.scorpio83 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:41 Sorry, but sometimes size don't matter to Ali and Lewis never fought anyone like Ali, who never fought any great big man with the size of Lewis, but Ali was quicker with speed in his prime and boxed Lewis on the outside, but landing quicker jabs and combinations to take a closed 15 round decision.
Ali wouldn't want to stay on the outside with Lewis. Lewis has a big reach advantage.
Lewis is no Norton? You trying to say Norton was better than Lennox Lewis? Because if so I gotta find your dunce hat.scorpio83 wrote: ↑30 Oct 2020, 06:32Lewis is no Norton and he was not awkward as he was and Ali would out-box Lewis, who has the same reach as Sonny Liston, but Ali was a bit quicker.gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:46Ken Norton knew how to box well enough to nullify Ali's movement, and use his size and strength effectively on him. If Norton could do that Lewis could do it better.scorpio83 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 17:41 Sorry, but sometimes size don't matter to Ali and Lewis never fought anyone like Ali, who never fought any great big man with the size of Lewis, but Ali was quicker with speed in his prime and boxed Lewis on the outside, but landing quicker jabs and combinations to take a closed 15 round decision.
Ali wouldn't want to stay on the outside with Lewis. Lewis has a big reach advantage.
Norton and Lewis fought in different stance. Norton fought in a cross armed crab defense while Lewis fought in European stand up outside boxer/puncher style.gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Oct 2020, 17:19Lewis is no Norton? You trying to say Norton was better than Lennox Lewis? Because if so I gotta find your dunce hat.
At least somebody agrees with me. A prime Ali would never get careless against McCall and Rahman. Most historians from older to current generations would put Ali greater over Lewis in all-time heavyweight rankings.elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
Prime Ali got careless against Henry Cooper, just had a better chin than Lennox.scorpio83 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:28At least somebody agrees with me. A prime Ali would never get careless against McCall and Rahman. Most historians from older to current generations would put Ali greater over Lewis in all-time heavyweight rankings.elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
Can you picture Ali knocking out Golota and Ruddock flat in 2 rounds?elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
I saw the tail end of Lewis' title reign in real time, but I'm not one to be taken in by favoring a fighter from my generation just because.scorpio83 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:22Norton and Lewis fought in different stance. Norton fought in a cross armed crab defense while Lewis fought in European stand up outside boxer/puncher style.
If you think Lewis beat the prime Ali, then I respect your opinion, but at the same time it doesn't mean I have agree to that because I never ever be convinced that Lewis would beat a prime Ali. Opinion is your opinion. I understand your opinion because you may grew up in Lewis' generation while downgrading Ali's generation where you didn't grow up despite learning about his fights. I used to do that too and it's the cycle of favoring modern fighters over old-time fighters from previous generation. One day in 20 years down the line, fans from future generations would make their opinion that Fury would beat Lennox Lewis by decision, but I would defend that Lewis would beat Tyson Fury the same opinion I made that I defend my opinion that Ali would beat Lewis. Btw, Lewis is better than Norton.
I can't. I also can't imagine Ali being beaten by Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman if he fought them both 10 times each.mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 08:03Can you picture Ali knocking out Golota and Ruddock flat in 2 rounds?elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
How bout Ali beating Vitali Klitschko when he's at the end of his career?
How bout Lennox losing to Leon Spinks?
Even if he did get careless and got caught. He'd get knocked down maybe, but he'd get up, and he'd win.scorpio83 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:28At least somebody agrees with me. A prime Ali would never get careless against McCall and Rahman. Most historians from older to current generations would put Ali greater over Lewis in all-time heavyweight rankings.elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
Thanks Gilgamesh for your honesty and I respect your opinion for why you think Lewis has all of the tools to beat Ali unlike certain someone, who wrote this mythical match up, who favored certain modern fighter over old school fighter just to make certain modern fighter look better which would not be fair. Yes, in your last message, Ali did got caught by Sonny Banks, Sir Henry Cooper in their first fight and "Smokin" Joe Frazier in their first fight as well, but it shouldn't ruled a knockdown against Wepner, who tripped Ali, but Ali manages to get up because he has one of the best chins and win most of his fights.gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 10:23I saw the tail end of Lewis' title reign in real time, but I'm not one to be taken in by favoring a fighter from my generation just because.scorpio83 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:22Norton and Lewis fought in different stance. Norton fought in a cross armed crab defense while Lewis fought in European stand up outside boxer/puncher style.
If you think Lewis beat the prime Ali, then I respect your opinion, but at the same time it doesn't mean I have agree to that because I never ever be convinced that Lewis would beat a prime Ali. Opinion is your opinion. I understand your opinion because you may grew up in Lewis' generation while downgrading Ali's generation where you didn't grow up despite learning about his fights. I used to do that too and it's the cycle of favoring modern fighters over old-time fighters from previous generation. One day in 20 years down the line, fans from future generations would make their opinion that Fury would beat Lennox Lewis by decision, but I would defend that Lewis would beat Tyson Fury the same opinion I made that I defend my opinion that Ali would beat Lewis. Btw, Lewis is better than Norton.
For instance there's many an old timer I'd pick over Mayweather.
It's a styles thing. Lewis could box well enough to match Ali's skill or at least come close, and if that wasn't working, he could use his strength to get him on the ropes and stop his movement.
There are guys that Ali beat that Lewis might not.
Now of course there is no certainty in any mythical match, but I think Lewis has all the tools to defeat Ali.
However Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Earnie Shavers. All those guys might be a bigger problem for Lennox than they were for Ali. Boxing's funny that way sometimes. Hence the old "Styles make fights" cliche.
And incidentally I'm not just some fan who "Heard about Ali's fights". I've seen them. More of his fights than Lewis actually.
Ali beat all those guys you mentioned. So what's your point?mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 14:35 McCall and Rahman were two quality heavyweight.
Certainly alot more skilled than Evangelista, Bugner, Wepner, Jergen whatever and Leon Spinks.
People trashing Lennox cause he lost to McCall and Rahman. Which he rematched with wins.gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 15:00Ali beat all those guys you mentioned. So what's your point?mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 14:35 McCall and Rahman were two quality heavyweight.
Certainly alot more skilled than Evangelista, Bugner, Wepner, Jergen whatever and Leon Spinks.
They were solid Heavyweights. I never said they weren't, but Ali would've beaten 'em both every single goddamn time.
Ali was shot when he lost to Trevor Berbick. counting that one against him is about like counting a loss against Lennox Lewis if he had come back in 2008.mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 15:13People trashing Lennox cause he lost to McCall and Rahman. Which he rematched with wins.gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 15:00Ali beat all those guys you mentioned. So what's your point?mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 14:35 McCall and Rahman were two quality heavyweight.
Certainly alot more skilled than Evangelista, Bugner, Wepner, Jergen whatever and Leon Spinks.
They were solid Heavyweights. I never said they weren't, but Ali would've beaten 'em both every single goddamn time.
Ali lost to Spinks and Trevor Berbick.
And had easy matches like those guys and Rudi Lubbers and Jean-Pierre Coopman.
Lewis ALWAYS fought high quality and never has a part of his career people have to make excuses for.
Yes, I can picture The Greatest knocking out Andrew Golota and Razor Ruddock. Both of them overrated.mayorcurley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 08:03Can you picture Ali knocking out Golota and Ruddock flat in 2 rounds?elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 07:19 Ali by UD and probably by knockout. I can't picture Ali losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman by knockout.
I think Lennox Lewis is overrated.
How bout Ali beating Vitali Klitschko when he's at the end of his career?
How bout Lennox losing to Leon Spinks?
Golota is more often underrated than overrated.elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Nov 2020, 21:50 Yes, I can picture The Greatest knocking out Andrew Golota and Raz
Nonsense. It was an even fight. Everyone points at the judges' cards, but no one tries to see closer and notice a disagreement there. The fight could easily be scored 3-3 by rounds. Lewis was winning at the last stages. However, the craziest stuff is calling the stoppage bad, when Vitali's eye was in bloody mess.elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Nov 2020, 21:50 Lennox Lewis did not beat Vitaly Klitschko. Klitschko was kicking his ass. The doctor made the fight to be stopped. It was a bad stoppage.