Heavyweights : David Haye vs. Oscar Bonavena

[Woldemar]

12 rounds,who wins?

[rimmjobb]

David Haye UD

[DrDuke]

Haye by dec. Smarter, faster, more technical, better skilled. Bonavena could only KO him to win.

[gilgamesh]

I hate David Haye, and will never give him credit against basically any mythical opponent.

Ringo by UD.

[Ambling Alp II]

Agreed. Never understood the obsession with Haye. Why do people keep bringing him up? Bonavena actually beat some good opponents and was competitive with some far better than Haye. Bonavena was tougher, more aggressive, a harder puncher. Bonavena by stoppage in the mid-rounds.

[DrDuke]

Agreed. Never understood the obsession with Haye. Why do people keep bringing him up? Bonavena actually beat some good opponents and was competitive with some far better than Haye. Bonavena was tougher, more aggressive, a harder puncher. Bonavena by stoppage in the mid-rounds.

How Bonavena was harder puncher?

How aggressiveness necessarily becomes an advantage in a fight against an opponent, who has more speed and skills?

[Ambling Alp II]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

[DrDuke]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

[gilgamesh]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

There is certainly reason for him to be remembered.

The Toe excuse.

Talking sh*t to Vitali Klitschko and Tyson Fury only to pull out of those fights like a bitch.,

Stuff like that.

[DrDuke]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

There is certainly reason for him to be remembered.

The Toe excuse.

Talking sh*t to Vitali Klitschko and Tyson Fury only to pull out of those fights like a bitch.,

Stuff like that.

You hate Haye too much. He's a one of the most accomplished CWs, it's impossible to take that away from him. His HW achievements are mediocre, but who remember boxers only for that? He was entertaining. The Chisora fight was one of the best HW bouts in the 2000s.

[gilgamesh]

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

There is certainly reason for him to be remembered.

The Toe excuse.

Talking sh*t to Vitali Klitschko and Tyson Fury only to pull out of those fights like a bitch.,

Stuff like that.

You hate Haye too much. He's a one of the most accomplished CWs, it's impossible to take that away from him. His HW achievements are mediocre, but who remember boxers only for that? He was entertaining. The Chisora fight was one of the best HW bouts in the 2000s.

I don't like chickensh*t boxers who talk more than they fight.

I did like it when Tony Bellew whipped his ass twice.

[DrDuke]

There is certainly reason for him to be remembered.

The Toe excuse.

Talking sh*t to Vitali Klitschko and Tyson Fury only to pull out of those fights like a bitch.,

Stuff like that.

You hate Haye too much. He's a one of the most accomplished CWs, it's impossible to take that away from him. His HW achievements are mediocre, but who remember boxers only for that? He was entertaining. The Chisora fight was one of the best HW bouts in the 2000s.

I don't like chickensh*t boxers who talk more than they fight.

I did like it when Tony Bellew whipped his ass twice.

C'mon, Tony Bellend is a bigger a$$hole.

[gilgamesh]

You hate Haye too much. He's a one of the most accomplished CWs, it's impossible to take that away from him. His HW achievements are mediocre, but who remember boxers only for that? He was entertaining. The Chisora fight was one of the best HW bouts in the 2000s.

I don't like chickensh*t boxers who talk more than they fight.

I did like it when Tony Bellew whipped his ass twice.

C'mon, Tony Bellend is a bigger a$$hole.

He's a douchebag too, yes.

Beating Haye twice was at least something he did that was enjoyable for me to watch though.

[Ambling Alp II]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

Really? You are comparing Vitaly's 6 rounds against Lewis and quitting against Byrd to Bonavena's fights with Ali and Frazier? Wow. And David Haye did what, exactly?
Cleveland Williams had his ups and downs. Never said he was a legend or any thing like that. No idea why you are even bringing him up.

[DrDuke]

Bonavena's pressure would overtake Haye's phenomenal skills. Haye did little in his career. No reason he should remembered at all.

You give credit to Bonavena for his efforts, while you don't give a one to Vitali for his ones. You praise Cleveland Williams and cry because of him being mocked, while there's no reason for you to remember Haye. You're so biased.

Really? You are comparing Vitaly's 6 rounds against Lewis and quitting against Byrd to Bonavena's fights with Ali and Frazier? Wow. And David Haye did what, exactly?
Cleveland Williams had his ups and downs. Never said he was a legend or any thing like that. No idea why you are even bringing him up.

Are you aware, what is really discussed here?

Where did I compare Vitali's and Bonavena's efforts? My point was that both deserved credit, regardless which of them was bigger. Cause you doesn't give any credit at all for those 6 rounds.

I brought Williams just as a random example of your oldie bias. It could have been any other name, which isn't special, but would have been favored by you against ANY more or less recent fighter like Haye, of whose achievements you aren't even aware, as you point it out.

[Ambling Alp II]

My point is that you can't compare Klitschko's "effort" to Bonavena's. He fought a whopping six rounds against Lewis and you seem to think this was some herculean effort for the ages. He looked terrible against Byrd and then quit.
Bonavena decked Frazier twice in one fight and held his own for 15 rounds in the other. He put up a decent showing until the 15th round against Ali. That dwarfs what Klitschko or whatever the great David Haye ever did.
Yes, you randomly brought up Cleveland Williams because of my "oldie bias". There were many fighters before and after Williams who were better than him. He had his good points and bad. That isn't "oldie bias".

Making obvious points about Bonavena isn't "oldie bias" either.

[DrDuke]

My point is that you can't compare Klitschko's "effort" to Bonavena's. He fought a whopping six rounds against Lewis and you seem to think this was some herculean effort for the ages. He looked terrible against Byrd and then quit.
Bonavena decked Frazier twice in one fight and held his own for 15 rounds in the other. He put up a decent showing until the 15th round against Ali. That dwarfs what Klitschko or whatever the great David Haye ever did.
Yes, you randomly brought up Cleveland Williams because of my "oldie bias". There were many fighters before and after Williams who were better than him. He had his good points and bad. That isn't "oldie bias".

Making obvious points about Bonavena isn't "oldie bias" either.

Yeah-yeah, Bonavena was better than Haye, because Haye shouldn't be remembered at all, sounds like unprejudiced as much as it possible.

[Ambling Alp II]

OK, tell us what Haye did that we are supposed to be so impressed about?

[DrDuke]

OK, tell us what Haye did that we are supposed to be so impressed about?

His cruiserweight career was quite stellar, as he's a one of the most accomplished fighters in the history of the division, easily in the top 5.

His HW resume is mediocre, but still he bashed out Chisora more decisively than anybody else up to the date, in a one of the most entertaining HW fights of the 2000s.

[Ambling Alp II]

He was the best cruiserweight for what, a year?
I guess he is getting a free pass for getting embarrassed by Carl Thompson.
Chisora? How impressive.

[DrDuke]

He was the best cruiserweight for what, a year?
I guess he is getting a free pass for getting embarrassed by Carl Thompson.
Chisora? How impressive.

Lol, everything just got proved. Your opinion is utter waste, as it's completely biased. It is very well seen by you ignoring the good of the boxer not appealing to you, while you keep bringing only his bad.

[gilgamesh]

He was the best cruiserweight for what, a year?
I guess he is getting a free pass for getting embarrassed by Carl Thompson.
Chisora? How impressive.

Lol, everything just got proved. Your opinion is utter waste, as it's completely biased. It is very well seen by you ignoring the good of the boxer not appealing to you, while you keep bringing only his bad.

His 2 best wins at Cruiserweight are Enzo Maccarinelli and Jean Marc Mormeck.

I wouldn't consider him All Time Top 5 at Cruiserweight, and his Heavyweight career is primarily known for talking up fights he then ducked, and the toe excuse in the one big fight he actually went through with.

I do give him credit for beating Valuev, and being a living proof of the reason why Bridgeweight isn't necessary.

Other than that. F*ck that guy.

[DrDuke]

He was the best cruiserweight for what, a year?
I guess he is getting a free pass for getting embarrassed by Carl Thompson.
Chisora? How impressive.

Lol, everything just got proved. Your opinion is utter waste, as it's completely biased. It is very well seen by you ignoring the good of the boxer not appealing to you, while you keep bringing only his bad.

His 2 best wins at Cruiserweight are Enzo Maccarinelli and Jean Marc Mormeck.

I wouldn't consider him All Time Top 5 at Cruiserweight, and his Heavyweight career is primarily known for talking up fights he then ducked, and the toe excuse in the one big fight he actually went through with.

I do give him credit for beating Valuev, and being a living proof of the reason why Bridgeweight isn't necessary.

Other than that. F*ck that guy.

Maccarinelli and Mormeck scalps were quite big, as those were ones of the division's best fighters at that time.

Valuev fight was fun to watch in the sense that a one of the worst champions ever got exposed and toyed with. But Chisora win was better, cause Chisora is around the top for quite a while.

Yeah, his excuses were pathetic, but the guy obviously weren't some sh!t. Even despite the toe excuse, his performance in a Klitschko bout was a one of the best performances among Wlad's opponents against Wlad himself.

[gilgamesh]

Lol, everything just got proved. Your opinion is utter waste, as it's completely biased. It is very well seen by you ignoring the good of the boxer not appealing to you, while you keep bringing only his bad.

His 2 best wins at Cruiserweight are Enzo Maccarinelli and Jean Marc Mormeck.

I wouldn't consider him All Time Top 5 at Cruiserweight, and his Heavyweight career is primarily known for talking up fights he then ducked, and the toe excuse in the one big fight he actually went through with.

I do give him credit for beating Valuev, and being a living proof of the reason why Bridgeweight isn't necessary.

Other than that. F*ck that guy.

Maccarinelli and Mormeck scalps were quite big, as those were ones of the division's best fighters at that time.

Valuev fight was fun to watch in the sense that a one of the worst champions ever got exposed and toyed with. But Chisora win was better, cause Chisora is around the top for quite a while.

Yeah, his excuses were pathetic, but the guy obviously weren't some sh!t. Even despite the toe excuse, his performance in a Klitschko bout was a one of the best performances among Wlad's opponents against Wlad himself.

It was close on the scorecards somewhat. The Wlad fight, but it sucked ass.

[Ambling Alp II]

To sum it up:

Haye was a mediocre heavyweight, at least that is what Dr. Duke himself said.
Hayes's big wins were over Marc McCormeck who was 35 at the time and Derek Chisora. Yes, Derek Chisora.
Chisora had lost three of his previous four fights, went on to lose several more fights and has no wins of any consequence. However, he did have a pulse, have to give him that.
Oh and I am biased because I think Bonavena's era was better than Hayes in the heavyweight division.